Navigating Ghosting and Trauma: Insights on Healing with Dr. Frank Anderson

Frank Anderson, MD, a world-renowned trauma treatment expert, Harvard-trained psychiatrist, and psychotherapist, joins host Gretta to share his perspective on all things ghosting.
This episode includes Dr. Frank's take on the following:
- How trauma can block love and connection and how love can heal trauma
- A three-step process to heal after being ghosted that's rooted in Internal Family Systems and neuroscience research
- Why people may choose people who aren't choosing them, and how to begin to heal this relational pattern
Dr. Frank also shares his thoughts on having a victim mentality and how to see humanity in a ghost.

Connect With Dr. Frank:
New Book! To Be Loved: A Story of Truth, Trauma, and Transformation
Dr. Frank's Website | Instagram | Facebook

Connect With Gretta:
Free Guide: What to Say To Your Ghost
Coaching With Gretta
Take Your Power Back Workshop
Free and Private Facebook Support Group |  Instagram | copingwithghosting.com

BetterHelp:
Go to https://betterhelp.com/copingwithghosting for 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp and get matched with a therapist who will listen and help #sponsored

Music: "Ghosted" by Gustavo Zaiah

Disclaimer:  This information is designed to mentor and guide you to cope with Ghosting by cultivating a positive mindset and implementing self-care practices. It is for educational purposes only; it solely provides self-help tools for your use. Coping With Ghosting is not providing health care or psychological therapy services and is not diagnosing or treating any physical or mental ailment of the mind or body. The content is not a substitute for therapy or any advice given by a licensed psychologist or other licensed or other registered professionals. 

Are you ready to move forward after being ghosted? Are you tired of worrying, stressing, and struggling to find answers? If you want to regain control of your thoughts and feel more at peace, there’s a solution for you. For less than the cost of one coaching session, you can download the new Take Your Power Back Workshop. In it, Gretta and Coach Estee K. will help you better understand why ghosting happens, ways to feel better now, and actionable steps to take your power back. Your purchase will help support this podcast, so it’s a win-win!

Note to All Listeners: Ghosting is defined as: The practice of ending a personal relationship with someone by suddenly and without explanation withdrawing from all communication (Oxford Languages).
When you leave an abusive situation without saying "goodbye," it's not ghosting, it's "self-protection." When you quietly exit a relationship after a boundary has been violated, it's not ghosting, it's "self-respect."

Transcript

Gretta: 0:18

Welcome to Coping with Ghosting, the podcast that provides hope, healing and understanding for anyone who has been ghosted. I'm your host, Gretta, and I'm honored to introduce today's guest, Frank Anderson MD, a world-renowned trauma treatment expert. Harvard-trained psychiatrist and psychotherapist, he's the acclaimed author of Transcending Trauma and the new memoir To Be Loved Transcending Trauma, and the new memoir To Be Loved A Story of Truth, trauma and Transformation. He's also the co-author of Internal Family Systems Skills Training Manual. As a global speaker on the treatment of trauma and dissociation, he's passionate about teaching brain-based psychotherapy and integrating current neuroscience knowledge with internal family systems or IFS. Dr. Frank is the co-founder of the Trauma Institute and trauma-informed media organizations that promote trauma awareness, education, integration and healing. He's also a lead trainer at the IFS Institute under Richard Schwartz and has a long affiliation with Bessel van der Kolk at the Trauma Research Foundation. Dr. Frank maintains a private practice in Harvard, Massachusetts, where he lives with his husband and two sons. Welcome, Dr. Frank.

Dr. Frank: 1:39

Thank you so much. I'm like holy cow, that's a lot of stuff to hear about yourself honestly much. I'm like holy cow, that's a lot of stuff to hear about yourself, honestly.

Gretta: 1:49

Oh, you certainly have, and you know. I've read a lot about it in your new memoir, which was yeah, it was incredibly touching. It was so inspirational. I would love for you to just share with listeners all about this new book.

Dr. Frank: 2:05

Yeah, that's great. I love that. It was like hearing it was touching and inspirational. I'm like home run, that's like the whole point, right. So I'm grateful. That's really my biggest hope is that it touches people and it kind of brings them to their own healing journey through my story.

Dr. Frank: 2:25

You know, I've been a teacher for many, many years. I've been teaching about trauma and neuroscience, as you just kind of explained, and this whole idea of writing a memoir was like so new and such a whole new world of kind of through story. I mean, story is such an important way to communicate with people and to touch people, right, and so to be able to do that instead of like teaching it's a different kind of teaching, right Was super exciting for me. It really really was to kind of be able to write a memoir no references, no needing to footnote things. It was like, oh my gosh, you could just write what you want to say was really freeing.

Dr. Frank: 3:10

And the process, like in the beginning I was like why me and who wants to hear about my life? Right, I totally have that view. And then when I started like talk about collecting moments, I just like made this list of moments and I started writing about the moments I was like, wow, okay, you did have a pretty significant life, like as many of us have, many of us have. We just don't think about it this way or we don't kind of review it in you know, certain parts of our life. So, yeah, it was really. It was interesting. It was almost like the moments popped out they really did. It was like this was significant. This was significant and both positive and negative. Honestly, like some moments that was like, oh my gosh, I think so fondly upon this.

Dr. Frank: 3:56

I have to share the joy you know, in kind of like making wine with my family or yeah, tomatoes with our family, or going on some of our family vacations, like there were so many wonderful moments and these moments that stuck out as like terrifying or frightening, or only overwhelming. So it turned out to be a collection. Do you know what I mean? Because that's the way it is for everybody. We all have a collection of good and bad moments.

Gretta: 4:24

It's so true, and I found myself laughing at some points and crying at other times.

Dr. Frank: 4:29

That's right and I think it's universal. I think the way it is for everybody. So I love, I love the way people can relate through the experience, not necessarily, you know, not going through the same thing, but having the same emotion or something similar that this reminds them of right.

Gretta: 4:48

Yeah, absolutely. I just wonder how can trauma block love and connection?

Dr. Frank: 4:57

Yeah, that's something I was talking last night to a friend who's here right now as we're kind of heading to this Bessel's Trauma Conference together. It was interesting. He was talking from a religious perspective which I was like wow, that was really he was talking about. Like the way the Bible talks about sinners and people who are redeemed, like this whole idea of certain religious organizations around good and bad, evil and you know all this kind of polarity of good and bad, victim, perpetrator, this kind of thing. And he said something really fascinating to me like I think modern day sinning is kind of trauma, like trauma is our version of something harmful that blocks our essence, like in the in the olden days. Like not sin sinner.

Dr. Frank: 5:49

Like when you do something in the you know misaligned with God, right is the way it was described in the old, you know in the Bible and all the days I would go oh, that's where it popped into my head misaligned with God, misal into my head. Misaligned with God, misaligned with love, misaligned with source. I was like that is what trauma is in our current day. You know whether you're someone who perpetrates trauma or is the recipient of trauma. You know, and I don't need to turn it religious or spiritual. That's not even the point. It's more like yeah, trauma energy blocks our love. Trauma energy blocks our authentic self really does Like, and I've experienced it personally. It's what I see in my clients. And the other piece of that is love heals trauma, like you know. It's such a cycle in that way, and so the more we access love, the more we can heal trauma and the more authentically ourself we are.

Dr. Frank: 6:56

So it is this interesting dynamic and, you know, not everybody holds this view, as different people have different views of what trauma is. But I think everybody's gone through something. I really do. I think we've all gone through overwhelming things in our life. You know some people call it big T, little t, some people all different kinds of things. But I think we've all been hurt, we've all been betrayed, we've all felt Honestly, we've all done and had done to us harmful things and so our journey of healing. It is kind of what the book is about, but it's also what my mission is about. It's like let everybody know healing is possible.

Gretta: 7:42

Healing is possible.

Dr. Frank: 7:44

Yes.

Gretta: 7:45

Wow, what you just said was so insightful. Thank you, and one of my New Year's resolutions I think it was last year it was to feel more love, be more loving, to try to find and see more love on an everyday basis, just to really embody love.

Dr. Frank: 8:02

Love that. I love that, you know, I think we embody love. Love that, I love that, you know, I, I, yeah, I think we all need to do that. So I, I love the fact that that's your resolution because it's kind of what it is about. It's kind of what life is about, like, in the most basic form. I think it's what life is about, and so to how we do that is the question. Right, because we don't want people to kind of bypass the pain and just override the hurt and just shoot for love, because it's not even that's not even authentic, right? We can't feel it if we're not able to connect with the ways we've been harmed and release the energy that we carry from our hurts and our betrayals. You know what I mean. That's the way to love. Is my view right? And the message I want to get out.

Gretta: 8:58

Yes, with that in mind, I'd love for you to please provide actionable tips for people who are listening, so that they can heal after being ghosted in. You know, in friendship, maybe it's romance or somebody in their family ghosted them. What's your suggestions for them?

Dr. Frank: 9:19

Well, sure you know and I do. This is one of the things that the book has helped me get clarity on is I've been teaching therapists how to do these things in models of psychotherapy for a long time and I'm really translating that information into the general public. Like, I think therapy is super helpful and I think there's too many people out there that don't have access to therapy and I think there's not enough therapists to help heal the world in trauma. So it's like we've got to figure out ways to help people do this outside of therapy too. So I've certainly worked on translating this content into general public type terms.

Dr. Frank: 9:57

And you know the word ghosting. I think about it at the core, wound is alone and betrayed. Like when you're ghosted, the connection is severed. Right, it's a severing of a connection. So when we're wanting to heal that and you know that can be through neglect, growing up as a child, that could be, like you said, in relationships. When you know this, this severing of connection, and then the distortion of responsibility, it's like the severing of a connection and the distortion of who's responsible for what. You know what ghosting has a lot of connection to, so for me, the healing process. Not everybody may like to hear this, but it's not about getting something from the other person. It really kind of is independent of the other person, like we can heal, independent of who harmed us, and I think that's an important message for people to hold You're not beholden to them, or it's not dependent on the other person. It's your journey towards, I like to say, releasing what doesn't serve you and what doesn't belong to you, right? Because trauma is an absorption of that. We absorb trauma, we absorb that energy and we keep it in our system. So how do we release this energy, right, that doesn't belong to us? And so, for me, there's three main steps to that, if you will, and a lot of this is rooted in my teaching in internal family systems, also rooted in neuroscience, knowledge of how we rewire neural networks, like we can rewire neural networks in the brain, and so I have the three steps for me around transformation and release.

Dr. Frank: 11:50

First is witnessing. There's a sharing the story that has to happen. The part of us that carries the pain, that carries the hurt, that carries the neglect or abandonment needs to share it. And it's not just the story, it's sharing the experience, the thoughts, the feelings, the physical sensations, the beliefs. I'm bad, I'm no good, it's all my fault.

Dr. Frank: 12:18

Share the experience. I feel it in my body. There's a tightness in my chest, I'm overwhelmed with hurt or loneliness. So it's like the part that holds the pain needs to share the experience with someone. It could be a therapist, it could be a loved one, it could be internally right when the child who experienced the pain shares it with the adult. Now this can happen internally, through meditation, through journaling, things like this, when the younger part shares its experience with who we are now, because trauma gets confusing past and present. You know you're just like my mother is a confusion around. Can I differentiate you from my mother? Or do they feel like the same to me? So we want that differentiation and we want the part to share its experience with somebody.

Gretta: 13:21

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you're feeling down about being ghosted, it's important to share what's going on with somebody who can listen with an empathetic ear and provide compassionate support. I can't even begin to tell you the amount of times where, after being ghosted, I'd go to a friend or a family member and I know they meant well, but they would say things like just move on or just get over it, or this happens to everyone, just accept it. And for me it was not that easy, because being ghosted was one of the most devastating things that happened to me. I was in a lot of pain in my mind and in my body. Going to therapy really changed all that around. My therapist helped me move toward a more secure attachment style. She helped me with my self-esteem and learn how to cope with all the anxiety that I was experiencing in relationships and even outside of relationships after being ghosted, because it really did hurt me. Being in therapy was like one of the most healing things that I did, and I seriously love therapy. So that's why I'm excited to tell you about today's sponsor, betterhelp.

Gretta: 14:36

BetterHelp connects you with a licensed therapist who is trained to listen and give you helpful, unbiased advice. First you go to their site, you can use my link betterhelpcom slash coping with ghosting. You answer a few questions and BetterHelp will match you to a professional who has years of experience helping people with struggles similar to yours. You can do it all from your phone or computer via phone call, video chat or messaging however you feel the most comfortable, and really it's the easiest way possible to start talking to a therapist. You'll be matched to a therapist, usually within 48 hours, so you can get started fast. Let BetterHelp connect you to a therapist who can support you all from the comfort of your own home. Visit betterhelp. com/ coping with ghosting. That's better H-E-L-P. Or choose coping with ghosting during signup and enjoy a discount on your first month. Thank you, betterhelp, for sponsoring my podcast.

Dr. Frank: 15:42

Once that witnessing and sharing happens, then there needs to be a corrective experience. Then the part that experienced the trauma needs to have the opposite of the trauma. It's like it needs to feel loved, it needs to feel seen, it needs to feel valued the opposite of what the trauma brought to it, right? So it needs to have a corrective experience. Neuroscience calls that disconfirming. So like you're disconfirming the trauma narrative, right. And once that happens and again that can happen with a friend, with a therapist, or internally, like oh, to my little one, like to Frankie, who I talk about in the book it's like I love you. That shouldn't have happened to you. You know, I had a big conversation recently with my sister and I was like I love myself more than I'm going to take care of you or anyone else, more than I'm going to take care of you or anyone else. This is a painful thing maybe to hear, but I love Frankie more than I'm going to take care of you. It was hard to say that but it was like the honoring, the part of me that was unloved, felt alone, didn't feel important, right. So that corrective experience can happen internally or it can happen through relationship and then, once those two steps occur. It is a healing process. Then the release is possible. Like all the thoughts I hold, all the feelings, all the physical sensations, I can let them go. Now, the part that holds the hurt can let it go. So there is a process around this and I'm always watching that.

Dr. Frank: 17:35

Whether it's in or out of psychotherapy is, are those steps possible? And before you can do that, honestly, you have to be comfortable with being with your pain. So before you do the healing, there has to be this increasing capacity to be with things that are overwhelming. Right, it's like going to the gym and building your muscle, because we typically push our pain away. Yeah, but we do. So. How do we help? Like, okay, can I be with this? Maybe it's two minutes a day, maybe it's through writing, maybe it's all different ways, through dance or when you're exercising and you're in nature. Right, like, can I be with my pain a little at a time and then build the capacity to do those, that process that I'm talking about?

Gretta: 18:27

That's wonderful, thank you.

Dr. Frank: 18:28

Yeah, you're welcome. You know what I'll tell you? Right, I was like, all right, I already got this message, like before the damn book is even out. It's like you got to write another book, frank. Oh my goodness, like you've got to teach people how to do this. That's my next book. I'm really clear. It's like you've got to teach people how to do this so that they can embark on this healing journey.

Gretta: 18:51

I completely support that and I will be buying that book. I'm curious to hear about your thoughts about having a victim mentality after being ghosted, about having a victim mentality after being ghosted.

Dr. Frank: 19:05

It's a great question.

Gretta: 19:06

Yeah.

Dr. Frank: 19:07

And it's tricky territory. It is Okay and here's what I'm going to say and I talk about this and I teach this when I teach about how we heal attachment trauma. Very early young trauma, usually with a primary caregiver. That's like when you're young and you don't have secure attachment with your parents, right? So there's an attachment trauma thing. So it's a similar thing. It's important to embrace the parts of you that have been victimized. That is important. To pretend it's not true is not helpful. To stay in the victim mentality is also not helpful, okay. So for me it's like you've got to visit it and you have to validate it, but you don't live there, right. And even the word like, think about the word victim and perpetrator, they're both negative.

Gretta: 20:07

Oh, you're such a victim.

Dr. Frank: 20:09

You know, oh my God, you're a perpetrator, like both of those words have a negative connotation. So for me, this is why, if you notice, I'm saying visit, be with, which is very different than be in, okay, that's a very important distinction. So I think it's important to be with the part of you that felt victimized. There's a truth in that. To live in the victim mentality is a way we can get stuck and continue to relive our victimhood. Then you see it everywhere, right, then you're like a victim to everything and everyone. So, yes, visit it. Yes, validate the part of you that has been hurt. It's a very important. We don't want to ignore it. But, again, we don't want to settle in and live there.

Dr. Frank: 21:12

So it's that being with it so that you can move through it and out of it. So it's not an either or thing for me, right, it's kind of a little bit of both. It's like I don't want to shame people for acknowledging the ways they've been hurt. It's important, it's part of healing. But I want to remind them, you know, don't get stuck there, don't hang out there and don't live in that, because it, you know, it's kind of neuroscience tells us anything we experience grows Like when you re-experience anxiety, the anxiety neural network gets stronger. Okay, every time we relive something, we're reinforcing those trauma neural networks. That's why I say visit it, validate it, don't be in it because you're going to make it stronger and harder to get out of.

Gretta: 22:06

Yes. So I have a question. There are a lot of listeners who they've told me I want the person who ghosted me, I want to get back together with them. They're the one, they're the person for me. So how can listeners begin to change their relational patterns so that they stop choosing and picking the people who are not choosing them?

Dr. Frank: 22:32

Well. So it's like I don't know if you remember this movie, the title it was kind of a comedy, but it was like they're just not that into you. Yeah, it was like they're just not that into you?

Dr. Frank: 22:47

Like almost every relationship, is complicated. There's positive and negative aspects, right? And so when I think about, this is why internal family systems has been so important for me, because it takes into account the different parts of us, right? The person that wants to get back with somebody who's blocked them and ghost them on every channel is saying there's a young part of me that's attached to the good parts of this person. A young part of me is attached to the good parts of this person and there's another part of me that's like they're so toxic, they're so harmful I should never be with them, right?

Dr. Frank: 23:29

And how do you, instead of flip-flop from one side to the other, how do you hold both? How do you hold both and not act from the parts, but listen to them and heal them? Why do I want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me? What is that about? For me? Because typically it's rooted in children who were with parents who were neglectful. A kid wants to be loved by their parent. It's natural and normal, and when a parent's unavailable, this wounded part has got this desire for someone who's unavailable.

Dr. Frank: 24:16

So you've got to get to the origin of the why, in order to heal it and not keep repeating it. So there's a reason like instead of like your friends, like what's wrong with you, you're such a loser? You keep going back to him. Can't you tell he's not that into you? It's like so why? So what part of me is drawn to someone who's unavailable and what is that about my history? Where did that originate? For me, that's where the healing comes in, because there's a reason for it. You know, instead of just don't do it, it just doesn't work that way, because you have a dive inside of you, a young little child part who's desperate for the love of their parent, and they didn't get it. So, instead of seeking people who are unavailable, let's heal the part of you that didn't get what they needed. So you stop seeking it. That's the solution.

Gretta: 25:17

I agree it's a good place to start if somebody goes to therapy.

Dr. Frank: 25:27

Yes, totally, and it's really that curiosity. Instead of judging like, why am I seeking this out? Why do I want to go back to somebody who isn't available and isn't interested in me? You know what's that about in me. Where does it come from? Yeah, it comes from somewhere. It's not a random thing.

Gretta: 25:47

For sure. I want to circle back to when we were talking about the whole victim perpetrator thing. How can listeners begin to see humanity in a ghost?

Dr. Frank: 26:02

That's so good. The thing that I'll say about that and this is what I went through with my father, who was pretty abusive to me as a child, to be able to see the humanity in him which I was able to do and so grateful for that is to heal your wounds around the relationship first. Heal first, because then you're not carrying the anger and the resentment and the wanting to get back at them or all of the stuff. That are natural protective responses. Right, those are natural. I hate you. You deserve to be punished. I wish evil upon you, whatever it is.

Dr. Frank: 26:45

Once you heal the wound, once you're no longer carrying that trauma energy, then you can see the person more completely for who they are, because you were drawn to something in them. Like hello, you were drawn to something in them, right? So it's like this is what happened with me and my dad. I saw the complexity of him. I was like he was a limited person and he did have severe limitations and he did love me the way he was capable of which was not what I needed. And I saw the woundedness in him.

Dr. Frank: 27:31

After I healed my own trauma, because I no longer was carrying trauma energy toward him, I was like, wow, I saw his little boy who was wounded and hurt, right so. But you can't do that unless you release your trunk, what you're carrying. So you've got to heal first before you can Explore the humanity and the complexity in another person. Right, and it was.

Dr. Frank: 27:59

It's really powerful and I say to people you know some people who want to retaliate, they want to confront, forgive. They want to never forgive like decide after you heal, like let's heal first, and then decide what you want to do, because usually they change their tune once they've healed, because they're no longer carrying the pain anymore, right? So then it's a different discussion, but it was very empowering for me to rise above what happened to me and to see my father really for who he was and to honestly have compassion for him and his woundedness. And then I was able to which was shocking to me love someone who harmed me. Love someone who harmed me. Love someone who harmed me, like I did not expect that.

Dr. Frank: 28:47

I'm not saying everybody has to do that. I'm saying it's possible if you truly heal what you're holding. You don't have to, it's not a requirement. Some people say you know what, I'm not interested and I don't want them in my life, and I'm like that's okay, fine, but you're not carrying anger and resentment towards them, you're at peace and you're not feeling negative energy about them. You're at peace and you're making a choice whether it's to stay connected or whether it's not. The bigger piece is you're not carrying the stuff around them anymore, and that's what was freeing for me with my dad was like it was.

Dr. Frank: 29:35

So I'm so Above what happened to me. I can love you, even though you harmed me. Like that was powerful. It was really powerful. It's like that's how unaffected I am. I'm not carrying any of the trauma anymore. So you know, there is a way that that can happen, because one of the things that's important to me is like crossing the divide between the us and them. I hate to tell people, but all the ghosters have their own trauma history. You don't become a victim of a ghoster and you don't become a ghoster without your own trauma history, because both sides have early attachment trauma. A ghoster protects by disconnecting.

Dr. Frank: 30:36

A victim of a ghoster is desperate for connection at all costs and it's important. People don't understand that we usually attract somebody who has a similar wound as us, but they protect themselves differently than we do. It's like opposites attract and like attracts. Like Opposites attract and like attracts. Like Most ghosters have very young, insecure parts of them and they'll do anything to protect that. You know what I mean. And I don't expect people to have that awareness when you're still carrying the hurt. That awareness when you're still carrying the hurt, like clear your hurt and then like, ah, on some level we were kind of more similar, even though we protected ourselves totally differently. And I don't expect everyone to get to that level of awareness, but it's an important perspective if you do your healing journey.

Gretta: 31:46

It really is and, like you said, we all have moments that we're not proud of.

Gretta: 31:53

I have to admit, a long time ago, before this podcast started, I did ghost a friend and it really stressed me out. I did feel guilt, I felt shame. I didn't know how to maturely and respectfully communicate the end of the relationship to that person, and part of why I didn't was because I thought at the time that I had to give them an in-depth explanation as to why I went to end the friendship and that felt like most scariest and awkward thing in the world to me. I didn't know how to do that at that time. And now I realize, oh, I didn't really have to go that far and give them every detail of why I wanted to end it. I've gone back to the person, I've apologized, but it's just. It still stays with me as like an ick of my past. But I try to practice a lot of self-compassion for what I did because I just didn't have the skillset at that time%.

Dr. Frank: 32:47

100%. That's exactly right and it's important to acknowledge that our limitations in the way we're navigating relationships with somebody who also has limitations with the way they're navigating relationships.

Gretta: 32:59

Yeah, is there anything else you'd like to share about ghosting or being ghosted, just in general?

Dr. Frank: 33:07

I think the biggest thing and we did touch on it, but I'll just reiterate it, because there are a lot of people out there that are still in the us and them mentality around ghosting, you know, and my, my message is let's hold the range of complexity for both sides. The only way for me we're truly gonna heal in this world is to see the perpetrator and the victim in all of us. So, as hard as that may sound, can we look inward first and heal what we're holding, and do we have the interest or capacity to see the commonality in the other side? Because the other side is hurting just as much as we are, and I don't expect you to do that at the expense of not healing or taking care of yourself. I say heal and take care of yourself and then, if you're open to it, see the similarities and humanities in the other side. That's where true healing will occur, within us and outside of us.

Gretta: 34:28

Thank you. Yeah, could you please share with listeners about some of the projects you're working on, how people can connect with you and how they can get a copy of your new book?

Dr. Frank: 34:33

Yes, yeah, there's so many things I'm working on. Like you heard that long bio in the beginning it's like, yeah, I haven't stopped, I have not stopped. So my book can be now, I understand, can be sold anywhere. Like I cannot wait to kind of be in the airport or be in Target and like see my book on a bookshelf, because that's never happened to me before. Right, amazon sells the book. Pesicom, p-e-s-icom is the publisher. You can get it through my website, frankandersonmdcom. You can get it through all my socials, you know. So you can get the book anywhere starting May 7th, which is when the release date is, which is so exciting.

Dr. Frank: 35:17

And then I'm doing two other big projects. Now this year is launching Trauma Institute. So TraumaInstitutecom is a new organization around bringing integrated trauma healing to the next generation and to the general public. So I started an organization called TraumaInstitutecom to bring healing awareness. And Trauma In informed media is another company and organization that I started, which, with two producers in Hollywood, to bring trauma informed content to the media, like where mental health meets media. I really want to add there's a way that some of the content out there is really re-traumatizing and there's a way to make trauma content, trauma informed. So we're really hoping to do that. So those are some things that I'm doing that are super exciting to get this message of healing out to the world.

Gretta: 36:13

I love it. Thank you so much for taking the time with your busy schedule to come here and talk to me. Thank you for doing what you do.

Dr. Frank: 36:21

Same to you, Like you're spreading the word of healing also, like we're all doing our piece right. So thank you for doing what you're doing and thank you for having me on.

Gretta: 36:30

Thank you and thank you listeners, for joining me during this episode. I'm so grateful for Dr. Frank for coming on my show to share his thoughts and his perspective on all things ghosting. Also on a separate note, the other day I received a touching email from a woman who purchased my online workshop and she gave me permission to share her words." I just took take your power back workshop and I want to say thank you so so much. I'm a 62-year-old woman who was ghosted by my boyfriend of two years after we had an argument.

Gretta: 37:08

This has been so insightful. I can't believe I'm at this age and going through this. But here I am. I know I am worthy and loved, but I still hurt. I feel as if I have the tools to move forward now and love me for me, not going to lie." When I first read this, I was moved to tears. Ghosting, being ghosted it can happen at any age. If you're intrigued by the transformative power of the Take your Power Back workshop, I encourage you to visit copingwithghostingcom where you can get a copy. You can also find a direct link to the one hour downloadable interactive video workshop in my show notes. Finally, remember that when you're ghosted, you have more time to connect with yourself and people who have stellar communication skills. You deserve the best.