ADHD and Ghosting with Kate Kamoshita, ADHD Educator and Learning Consultant

What is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), and how can it impact relationships? Listen as Kate Kamoshita, ADHD Educator and Learning Consultant, shares: 
- Tips for being in relationships with people who have ADHD
- How and why a person with ADHD person may appear to be ghosting
- The impact being ghosted has on people with ADHD
- Executive function, emotional regulation, RSD, and ANTS 
- How to heal after being ghosted
- Kate's experience with being ghosted 
Gretta and Kate's conversation also touches on grief ghosting, rage ghosting, life-transition ghosting (i.e., postpartum), and beyond.  Whether you have ADHD or not, you'll glean tons of healing advice from this show.  

Connect With Kate:

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Kate's Website: Learning Compass

Connect with Gretta:

New! Take Your Power Back Workshop

Free Guide: What to Say To Your Ghost

Free and Private Facebook Support Group |  Instagram | copingwithghosting.com

Music: "Ghosted" by Gustavo Zaiah

Disclaimer:  This information is designed to mentor and guide you to cope with Ghosting by cultivating a positive mindset and implementing self-care practices. It is for educational purposes only; it solely provides self-help tools for your use. Coping With Ghosting is not providing health care or psychological therapy services and is not diagnosing or treating any physical or mental ailment of the mind or body. The content is not a substitute for therapy or any advice given by a licensed psychologist or other licensed or other registered professionals. 

Transcript

Gretta: 0:17

Welcome to Coping with Ghosting, the show that provides hope, healing, and understanding for anyone who has been ghosted. I'm your host, Gretta, and today I'll be talking about ADHD and how it relates to ghosting with special guest, Kate Kamoshita.

Kate Kamoshita: 0:36

Hi. Hi. I'm Kate Kamoshita. I'm so happy to be here coming all the way from Tokyo today.

Gretta: 0:42

Love it. Kate is an ADHD educator, learning consultant, and a forever student who started Learning Compass to help people find a school environment in which they will thrive. I discovered Kate on Instagram where she shares about her ADHD journey and beyond. And when Kate posted about ADHD and ghosting, I knew I had to have her on this show. Welcome to Coping with Ghosting.

Speaker 1: 1:13

I'm so happy to be here and I'm really happy you provide this outlet because ghosting is not a fun experience.

Gretta: 1:20

Not at all. And I noticed that I have a lot of new listeners. So I just quickly wanted to find ghosting for them. In Oxford languages, ghosting is a noun, and it is the practice of ending a personal relationship with someone by suddenly and without explanation withdrawing from all communication. And this is different from leaving an abusive situation without a goodbye. That is called self-protection. And this is also different from disappearing after a boundary has been violated. That's self-respect. So, Kate, let's just dive right in. I have so many questions for you. Could you please define ADHD?

Speaker 1: 2:08

Yes, I will do my best.

Speaker: 2:10

I don't like you can definitely go and add in the uh dictionary definition of ADHD.

Speaker 1: 2:18

Uh, I don't want to do that because, first of all, the name ADHD is attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. And this is a very bad name for what ADHD is. So ADHD is a neurotype. So our brains are wired differently. And the biggest ways to define ADHD, yes, it's a neurotype, it's a mental health condition, but it's not a disorder, and it's not necessarily about attention nor hyperactivity. The two major defining things are usually about emotional regulation and executive dysfunction. And if you don't know what those mean, come to my site and learn all about them or take one of my classes. But it's been around since like the 1800s. They even have some uh some notes about ADHD. So it's a very old, it's one of the most well-studied neurotypes. And it primarily has to do with that we cannot regulate our attention. So it's not that we cannot pay attention or we can't focus, we cannot filter out other stimuli and we cannot regulate where attention goes. Got it. I feel like that's a better definition, and we can definitely look up what the internet says, but I feel that makes more sense for people. So if you're a person who sort of pays attention to everything and then finds it difficult to pay attention to the one important thing, that is sort of a good example.

Gretta: 3:56

Okay. That's really helpful. And if somebody relates to what you're describing, what should they do and how can they get support?

Speaker 1: 4:05

That's a very good question. Your listeners are from all over the world, right? So once again, it is everywhere in the world, particularly outside of the United States. It will probably be less diagnosed than in America, just because of our system. So usually the people who diagnose are clinical psychiatrists, or in America, there are ADHD specialists and there's general practitioners that can help diagnose you. In other countries, they'll have different rules. But for the most part, if you suspect it's ADHD, what I suggest people do is start by yourself by doing some of the online like quizzes, like am I ADHD quizzes? And I know that sounds kind of lame because people are like, those can't diagnose you, and they cannot diagnose you. Definitely don't go by that. But if you are seeing that it says maybe likely, highly likely, then you should probably reach out to. And you can also reach out to any of the people on Instagram, like myself or other uh ADHD content creators, because that's sort of why we do what we do, because maybe you're not ready to seek a medical diagnosis, but you just have questions. And I believe that the people who are content creators for ADHD sort of tell it as it is better than maybe a doctor might, because it's much more relatable. But of course, it's complicated. And just I did look it up, it just says ADHD attention deficit hyperactivity disorder is marked by an ongoing pattern of inattention or hyperactivity impulsivity that interferes with functioning or development. I feel that's not the best way to describe it. It is a common neurodevelopmental condition. And women at this point are assigned female at birth or anyone who fits into the not cis heteronormative patriarch. I don't know what words we want to use. Uh if you're more feminine presenting, or you have an estrogen, uh higher estrogen balance, or any of these hormones, this all affects how it presents. And actually, a lot of assigned female at birth are inattentive ADHD type people are diagnosed much less than hyperactive little boys, which is the stereotype.

Gretta: 6:33

So thank you for sharing this. It's really valuable information, and I like the way you explained it way better than the dictionaries. Do you think somebody with ADHD may accidentally ghost somebody or take a few days to get back to a message?

Speaker 1: 6:50

Yes. Essentially, executive functions take place in the prefrontal cortex of your brain, and they're responsible for, I call it like the brain's bouncer or the brain's like secretary assistant, right? And our bouncer assistants just not very good at their job. So one of these executive functions is called working memory, and the working memory is different because you might know somebody with ADHD and they'll remember everything that you've ever told them, and you'll be like, but you have such a good memory. So it's not related to long-term memory or learning or any of that. Your working memory is what we could consider the cachet of your internet browser. Like, or if you like say there's a plate, right? And you put all what you're doing now, and basically our plate is much smaller than a neurotypical's plate. So we lose a lot of the immediate thoughts. So basically, we have a lot of RAM and storage, but we don't have a lot to our drive. So that's sort of how it works. So, for example, this one is about working memory. So I might see your text, and the other executive functioning would be to us, that is also a task. So we'd have to start, we'd write you back. So, usually for people to do this, it's either they forgot about the text, and then they will not remember until something triggers that memory again. So either they'll see the text again, or something will be like, Oh, I forgot to text, right? And then you'll be like, Oh no, right? And the other is usually we might start a text and get distracted by a different task person thing, and then we will come back and discover maybe days, weeks later, that we never sent the test. Oh no, yeah. So a lot of these have to do with these the traits of ADHD, so the distractibility, the memory part, and the other executive function is the task initiation. That usually, when we want to do a task, like write an email, respond to somebody, we want to be focused on it. And for us, it just sometimes people can feel they're never focused enough to write that. And so they'll be like, I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do it tomorrow. And then it's been three weeks, and basically, you hate me, our friendship is over, I will run away because we were too scared to follow up after any of those reasons, whether we forgot about it, didn't send it, or couldn't gather enough like brain power to basically respond. Yes, that could be perceived as ghosting. But usually if you have an ADHD friend and you know they're ADHD, I would say the other friend should text them again. That it's okay to bother these ADHD friends because sometimes we just forget, and also people with ADHD have a lot of shame just from society, from so when we disappoint people or we feel that you'll be disappointed, many people will run away from this or assume that the person is very mad at them. So, usually, if you can go text them again or be like, maybe you forgot, or some friendly reminders, or just give them the clear that you're not mad, because we we do have very wild imaginations, but it's definitely possible. And I think if you ever heard there was a joke about this, somebody who's writing an email and they're like, Oh, I thought I sent this email, but I did it. And I saw a meme that said, Nobody says this, and it's true. But for ADHD people, it's very much it could possibly be like I thought I sent it, or like I moved it to draft, so just and you might hear ADHD people say, out of sight, out of mind. Uh people kind of call this object permanence because we don't have a better name for it, but it's not object permanence. I just want to make that clear. Object permanence is what babies have, where like they really think the thing doesn't exist, but we've adopted the word in an ADHD. It's just more means that out of sight, out of mind, and that also applies to people or text. So if you live across the country and your name popped up on the text, and then I'm like, oh, but then I didn't respond. If I don't see it again, I will not remember. And if I don't see you, I sort of don't remember. And this is again everything I say, I want to be clear with your listeners. This is not all ADHD people, because even I don't experience that. I'm very good at keeping in touch with my friends, but I this is what I've heard from clients or lots of other people that distance is hard and they might not contact you, but that doesn't mean I think that's different than what we're talking about today, which is ghosting on somebody.

Gretta: 12:06

This is such good information. What suggestions would you have for ADHD people who experience that guilt that you're talking about when they're not good communicators?

Speaker 1: 12:20

I do believe ADHD people do better with support of other neurodivergent people. So I feel this that question's a kind of loaded because it would really depend on the severity. Like when they say it's a spectrum, it's like I am super communicate with my friend, but I'm an ADHD who talks a lot, and some people are very introverted, don't want to talk to people. So the important part is to keep our interpersonal relationships healthy. And ADHD people do struggle with keeping friends, keeping relationships, these interpersonal relationship struggles, mostly because they've been taught to communicate in neurotypical ways, which don't work for us, right? So for that example, it'd be like active listening. This is something that triggers me quite a bit. Because active listening is, and let me be clear, being heard is important. You want friends to hear each other, relationships to be heard. But if you are somebody who expects me to look at you, ask you questions, not bring it back to anything outside of what you're saying directly, that's a very neurotypical mindset, right? So many neurodivergent people might interrupt you, for example. And it's not because oh, we we don't want to hear you talk. It's one, we've processed what you said, we're excited to respond. Right? Or we have a thought, like I said, that working memory again. And if we don't say it right now, it might go. But you can see how it could create conflict in communication. Yes. Yes. So identify the exact problem, right? Is it the way the person's listening? Is it how they respond to the like what is because I feel before these get too big until they turn into actual mountains when they're just molehills, that you should address it, be like, why do you interrupt me or why don't you text me back? And I feel that if they're approached by a friend who wants to help them or understand them, that's the compassion we don't really get from being raised in a neurotypical society. Where and that's why I said active listening is triggering because it's like I said, it's eye contact. It's and for me, when I try to do active listening skills, and I'm a teacher, I need to listen to my students. But if I'm like looking at you or in a Zoom meeting and all the cameras, it's like if an ADHD is actively listening, they're not listening because it's taking all of their executive functions, their brain power to behave this certain way and control their natural instincts and impulses. So they'll actually tend to not hear you. So that's why, like if you have a friend who never looks at you, they're like drawing something when you're talking, usually they are listening. So I think it's and this is such a sore spot for ADHDers because we've taken a lot of the blame on this side. Where we've been asked to change how we listen, how we speak, how we do stuff, because there hasn't been enough understanding or language or communication or dialogue about our side of what's happening. So I think I'm just saying, I think it's more communication is a two-way street. And I think unfortunately, for the neurodivergent side, we've been told that we are the ones who need to change. And I think what's a better approach is communicating with each other, and that the neurotypical person also has compassion and understanding to get their friend to to sort of mimic the behavior that they makes them feel good, like in any relationship. You some people just click, but relationships take work and communication and trust. And I feel that that's just there, it needs to be two-sided. And that's also to not give an ADHD your path. Like if you want to get texted back and you're a really good friend and they're not giving that to you, yes, you can get mad at your friend, but give them a little compassion first. If they still don't do it, then it's a different story, you know. Then you can have more reasons to be upset.

Gretta: 17:07

This is all such great advice. And compassion is really the cornerstone of my work. And I think it's important that all listeners remember that this is another big reason why we can't assume we know why we were ghosted. Assumptions are harmful, and you never know when a person is maybe ADHD and they don't know it or you don't know it. You know what I'm saying? Like, you can't just assume because somebody didn't reply to a text that you're being ghosted. I think it's really important to use your voice and communicate, check in on them, see if they actually got the message, all of that.

Speaker 1: 17:46

Yeah. And I think when we first talked, we talked about people who respond to texts immediately versus people who don't. And yeah, I think across the board, people have different expectations. So, and like I have friends who are terrible communicating. Like I live in Japan, I left my hometown when I was young, which is why I do have that need to stay in touch with people. This is why my ADHD doesn't fall into this category because I was the one leaving, I was actively trying to stay in touch with people. But I've sort of given up just because these friends just my ADHD friends back home, just they don't, they can't do it. And before it would upset me, but it's it's just who they are. And then I come home and we meet, and it's fine because again, it's that out of sight, out of mind thing. Once I'm there, they're like, oh, Kate's here. So I do think, again, especially with ADHD, I just this is a disclaimer too. Just when I speak about this, this is through my work and my experiences and my lived experience as an ADHD person. And it's very important for anybody listening to know that ADHD is a spectrum, and we all present very differently. There's also a lot of comorbidities, there's also a lot of family dynamics that come into this. And again, for neurotypical listeners, when I say it's a spectrum, it doesn't mean neurotypical is on the spectrum. Neurotypical is not on our spectrum. It's not, oh, everybody's a little ADHD. I think that word confuses people because neurotypicals have your own neurotypical spectrum. We are on our own ADHD spectrum. But if you don't have ADHD, you're not, you might forget something or forget to text, but it's because we get that a lot. You know, everybody does that. Everybody forgets to text. So I just want your listeners to keep that in mind.

Gretta: 19:49

Thank you for clarifying that. What is it like for a person with ADHD to be ghosted?

Speaker 1: 19:56

Many people with ADHD have a lot of problems. With interpersonal relationships. This again comes down to the emotional regulation, which I talked about at the beginning of this. So let's go into emotional regulation. So maybe you've met an ADHD person who cries a lot, or an ADHD person who gets really excited and info dumps on you. And or when they're in a mood and they really want your attention, they can be a bit overbearing. They get called things like intense, too much, talkative, extroverted, or a crybaby, too sensitive, calm down. It's not a big deal. Like these are the things that we get thrown at us a lot. And a lot of that comes from our ability to regulate our emotions. So, and again, this is something I've been dealing with a lot recently because I was an ADHD who was called too much all the time. You're you're too much. And it was even a joke when I was a teenager that it was like, anyways, back to me. Like that's what they said when I would tell, oh, anyways, back to me. Because the way I communicated, I would bring up my stories, my feelings. And that was how I was communicating that I understood what you were telling me. Right. So you'd tell me a story about a cat, and then I'd be like, Oh, I have a cat story too. Right. And so my friends made a joke. Anyways, back to me. That's what they'd say about me. And I was like, not till year. I wasn't diagnosed till I was 34 years old. So now I'm like, that's mean. Calling me too much is mean. Anyway, back to me is mean. Telling ADHD, like being constantly told to calm down, or being told constantly that it's not a big deal. Or, you know, why are you so excited? What's wrong with you? Because most of the time we're just reacting to our environment. And we're very sensitive to our environment and to this impulsivity or this dopamine, like we things that give us that feel-good reward, right? So if I am really excited about something, yeah, it might feel overwhelming to a to somebody who doesn't understand that. So on the flip side of this, we are very good at experiences these very highs, right? Creative highs, good feelings, you know, and you might hear people talk about how ADHD people are intuitive or like things like that. We can predict things that happen, or we're good at pattern, like, but it's because we're very observant, right? Um, and it's also because we cannot regulate our moods. So we're very affected by these stimuli. And we also are very bad at intraperspection, which means that we don't know if we're hungry, tired, thirsty, any of it. We usually cannot identify the emotion we're feeling. So if you're dealing with an ADHD person who's clearly hungry, they might not know they're hungry. And so also we've adapted different coping methods for this emotional regulation. So, like I said, so if we're really excited, we're really excited. But if we're but this also created what you might have heard about with rejection sensitivity dysphoria. I don't know if you've heard about that. Right. Yes, RSD. And just a quick note RSD is technically not proven scientifically, it's been accepted anecdotally in the ADHD community. But if you want to look up the science aspect, uh just look up rejection sensitivity, which is a trauma response, because they're more or less the same. Same thing, different. And I'm just giving you things that people will debate about if you have ADHDs, because some people get really, but RSD has generally been accepted because we can hurt our own feelings, we jump to conclusions. So if we're ghosted, you're you're ghosting somebody who is passionate, who cannot regulate their emotions, who is generally self-loathing, insecure, and feels that everything would be their fault anyway. So I would say it very much hurts an ADHD person because we don't know how to process that loss. And for an ADHD person who also we are very curious minds, we want to know the why, the how, then like you know, they we take everything apart, we want to see. So for us, the why is probably very important. I don't for me personally, it's like I understand friendships end or relationships end, but when I have no closure, my brain can't seem to let it go. And like I said, so if you have RSD and you can use this thing to hurt you too, because that's insane. So you'd be like, Oh, Gretta didn't text me back, she's just like this other friend who ghost did now, she hates me too. And so RSD also might be why people aren't texting you the both ways, perceived rejection already, and that is a coping, it's a trauma response to protect ourselves from that from the from disappointing people, from people expecting disappointing results from us.

Gretta: 25:58

Yeah, this is really hurting my heart. And yeah, is there any specific advice that you have for somebody who has ADHD who's in pain because they've been ghosted to help them move forward on their healing journey?

Speaker 1: 26:18

I would say the good thing about ADHD is we're we're creative, that you should channel, channel the pain, channel the questions. I think it's hard because we want an immediate result for things. So this is again why you need to talk to ADHD professionals or therapists or people around you and find your community because an ADHD or left to their own devices generally might choose negative routes to deal with the pain. So, like I think I told you in my situation, I was ghosted by two very important people to be very close to the death of my mother. And it's this is why I'm chugging up, but still hurts so much. Yeah. Um, and this is like the biggest one out of all the ghosting experiences. This was the one I'm like, oh my god. But I channeled it and I put it into songwriting, and I discovered I'm a songwriter, and that's a very interesting story because it started out as any other hobby of mine, any new hobby, then I'm like, I'm gonna start writing songs, and I got a book and got some apps, and I was watching YouTube, you know, I got really into all things songwriting. But I've written like three or four songs because that's where you can channel that that grief and that pain. So if you do have creative outlets, really try to do that. And I think it if it's really bothering you, it's it's important to speak to professionals as well to learn healthy coping mechanisms. Because I said, we're not installed with the emotional regulation thing. So it's we do need help, and I think a lot of ADHD people don't even know that they need that help. So that's why I stress that a lot that you should not be doing it alone, right?

unknown: 28:13

Right.

Speaker 1: 28:14

That doing it alone is not gonna help you because, like I said, we're just trapped in our own imaginary, very vivid worlds that because we talked about emotion regulation and rejection sensitivity, but people with ADHD also have things that are called ants, which are automatic negative thoughts. So we jump to the worst conclusion always, or when we finish a project, we will see the worst aspect of it. Like, we don't see our the nice things, which is funny because I know all of you who are not ADHD are like, oh, but my ADHD friends are like so encouraging and they're all teachers and brains that like, yes, we are very good at being cheerleaders for everybody else, but we do not give that same compassion to ourselves. Wow, and that seems to be a constant with many ADHD people that we and to me it's bizarre because I help people like you, I'm doing this, I've been a teacher forever, I've worked in education, so I find it crazy that even my perfectionism and my RSD or my feelings that I don't extend that compassion to myself. Like I wrote five songs I told you in six months from going to never writing a song to writing songs, and even I'd be like, uh yeah, I guess that's kind of cool, right? Like, I can't celebrate any of my achievements, and I'm somebody who works actively in the field of like working and getting like I know why that's a bad thing. So that's why I stress that a lot. And it's because we were just told so many times that we were wrong, that everything we felt and did was wrong. We were always doing the wrong thing at the wrong time.

Gretta: 30:06

I really am impressed by how you've channeled your pain into your purpose and how you have you wrote those songs. I think that's incredible. And I'm just so glad that you brought up self-compassion, because I do talk about that in a lot of the episodes. I even have one called Don't Ghost Yourself.

Speaker 1: 30:25

Like I said, I was ghosted before, but with this last one, the things I did that I was really proud of, I erased all the texts all right as I found out. Yeah, because I was like, if these are here, I'm gonna be searching for like clues, right? And I really I was like, that's not going to help me.

Gretta: 30:51

Yeah. That's great advice. I always suggest unfollowing them, blocking them. You know, you don't have to do this. This is all just these are all just suggestions. Take what you like, leave the rest. But for me, blocking and unfollowing really helped because then there's no constant reminders.

Speaker 1: 31:12

I would say wherever you found out, whether it was online or whatever that trail you have of commute that that is definitely has to go. Because you're just going to obsessively look at it and it's not going to give you any answers.

Speaker: 31:28

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 31:29

And so I said, This time I did do that with both the people, just erased all of their texts. And it was very hard to do that. But I was I did it right away. I cried. I let all my feelings out. I cried, but then I also said they're not crying. These people are not crying for me. So again, it's how much pain do you want to give them of yourself if they I mean I I would never ghost anybody. So but that's also because I'm just uh sorry guys, we're gonna get into astrology here. I'm just a deal, I'm a super super loyal, like when I've given you my loyalty, you have my loyalty. So to me, it's just never been something that makes sense to me. And uh, and I think that's the problem too. If you're on the side of a if you're ghosted and you would never ghost somebody, it's really hard behavior to understand.

Gretta: 32:41

And I think that's what takes up that mental real estate is that you're trying to find out what did I do, what went wrong, and it's it's not about you, it's not about you, it is not personal, it is it is a reflection of the ghost. It is the ghost showing you that they cannot or will not show up to a healthy relationship, they don't have what it takes to be in this mature relationship, or they're just unable to be in this right now. So that's not on you, that's on the ghost. You're not responsible for other people's crummy behavior, and you need to take care of yourself now. It's the most important thing. And Kate, thank you so much for sharing what happened to you. You know, it the more people share about this, the more people know that this happens to almost everyone, right? And that we're we're not alone. This has happened to me one too many times. And it's happened to me with multiple different areas of my life, with my friends, with somebody I was dating, with people at work, specifically a work partner that I had. It was a whole different company that just stopped talking to my company a long time ago. So it just can really happen in any area of life. And again, it's it is not personal. Sure, if you think you did something wrong, if you're feeling like, but I did that and I did this and I did whatever, okay, reflect and change your behavior moving forward. But ultimately, it's the choice of somebody else who's not talking to you anymore.

Speaker 1: 34:25

That's yeah, and you shouldn't change your ghosts. If you do have those feelings, I suggest doing some of those things, like you know, writing a letter and not sending it, yeah, getting all those emotions out. And it is a good time to reflect, but I would also say you can allow ghosts back into your life, depending on the circumstances as well. Absolutely. And I I have had a friend who's very close who ghosted out of my life, but it turns out that she was in an abusive relationship and like she came back to me, and I was really hurt with her ghosting me. Uh, I had my suspicions that her relationship probably had something to do with it, but um and it hurt. It hurt that she ghosted. I was really upset, and especially if you see somebody like in a sort of abusive relationship, or maybe the starting of it, that that is a very common situation that they isolate that person away from their friends. So sometimes people will come back and they'll have a good reason, or maybe they won't have a good reason, but it's up to you if you want to allow that person back into your life or not. I think I think every situation is very different with that. So I do feel that if you have a ghost who you really loved and you hope they come back, that's fine. That's a fine feeling to have, and you're allowed to forgive them and take them back into your life. But every situation is different, and I feel like with this one, that's some of the things I've been thinking about. Would I ever take this person back? And the problem is for me in this particular ghosting situation is I don't think I can. And again, you're talking to the loyal, forgiving, loving Leo who usually doesn't hold much against people they love. Because I just don't see a point in it. I think that's the thing. ADHDers also don't hold grudges because we were just like, oh, what was I mad about? Like, I forgot. Like so, but those are the personal each situation of ghosting is different. So I think there can you can hold out that hope for somebody to come back, it just as long as it's not harming you moving forward, or sort of disillusional that it's it's not gonna happen, but right, it does happen. Ghosts reappear. That's sort of isn't there like the sporadic ghost who pops in and pops out too?

Gretta: 37:02

And they're haunting you, yes, yeah. The number one thing I would need from a ghost before taking them back is a sincere apology, yeah.

Speaker 1: 37:15

And I think I think that's why it's important to know, but I also do feel on both sides that I feel it's it's one of I don't like how more common this is becoming. I think that's the post that got your attention is that I feel this is becoming accepted more, the ghosting has become an acceptable form of ending a relationship. And it is for the things you said self-perseverance, or you crossed the, you know, but I feel maybe, maybe that's what's happening. But for the person being ghosted, if you don't feel that's happening, right? If you don't feel you crossed a boundary or you didn't know, it means that was never communicated effectively. And that's what I'd say about ADHDs. You might have set a boundary and I might have forgotten about like so it's more like how many times do you get to mess up? I would say before being ghosted. So because people are imperfect, but I feel the whole even if this person had just told me before I found out, by the way, I don't have the bandwidth, which is the answer I got. Just tell me that before.

Gretta: 38:44

Yeah, and it it all comes back to the communication piece. I think the clear, compassionate communication can help prevent a lot of confusion.

Speaker 1: 38:55

I will say the other thing, because this just popped into my ADHD head, but it's something that's stuck with me because there's a difference between friendship breakups and being ghosted on too, right? So friendships break up, and sometimes it could be done compassionately, but it still hurts like hell. And people don't talk about friendship breakups nearly enough. And I feel the I feel for many people the ghosting of a relationship or a hookup is hard, but losing a good friend that way, I feel just because the trust in those friendship versus romantic relationships, because the sex is not involved in it, the romance is not. But somebody told me when I went through my first big friendship breakup that friendship is fleeting. And this was something that changed my life because I didn't believe that was true at that time, because I was 19, I was in college, right? And now I'm like, no, friendship is fleeting. Friendships change all the time. People lose people all the time. And I feel that was a very wise, compassionate thing that was told to me. These friendships are fleety. People in your life are fleeting. They're gonna come and go. But yes, ghosting should not be normalized for that. And I do think personally, I think it's a really awful thing to do. But I I got yelled at even on my post from the other side of why I shouldn't say ghosting is really bad. But again, I'm I'm me, and these are my feelings and my experiences. And if you really wanted to hurt me, that's the way you do it. So I do think people who know that and choose to do it that way maybe don't deserve that second. But again, you have to look at all the factors.

Gretta: 41:06

I feel the same as you. I'm on a mission to stop ghosting.

Speaker 1: 41:11

I mean, even the bandwidth text beforehand would have changed everything. It's not a good way to end a 25-year friendship, by the way, which I hadn't mentioned till now, but yeah. It's still better than just disappearing.

Gretta: 41:26

Yeah.

unknown: 41:27

Yeah.

Gretta: 41:28

So sorry that happened to you. Well, I'm a songwriter now. Yeah, exactly. The silver linings. You had mentioned that grieving people, new moms, and people who've had significant life changes may get ghosted. Can you share your thoughts about grief ghosting, rage ghosting, and life change ghosting with the listeners?

Speaker 1: 41:53

Um, yeah, I think this is common. And I think for the person who's going through the life change, it's gonna be very hard for them because I think we talked about new moms. So if you are a new mom and you have your baby, there's just a lot of um hormones, feelings. It's a it's a big giant change. You change, your personality changes, you're not sleeping enough. And maybe people don't want to be around you. Like that's just a fact. And grief can come for all sorts of reasons. This is a very common thing with grief that people leave for lose friends and they don't really have an answer, except maybe people don't know how to react to death, don't know how to react to your grief, don't know how to be around you, because these are all things that change who you are, right? Grief is going to fundamentally change who you are. Having baby is going to fundamentally change your life. And so you need to be aware that some people are just not going to be around for that. And what's disappointing is that could be some of the people that are closest to you now. So you might not be expecting who will be the people who fall out of your life, but it's very common to lose people during these big life changes. There is a lot of about uh grief ghosting, people losing friends after they lose someone. I feel there's just a lot of misunderstanding about both of those, about new motherhood, about being a new parent, right? And the stresses and what emotional support that friend needs. And same with grief, because so many people just don't know what to say. And if you don't know what to do in a situation, a lot of people decide I'm just gonna not be around that person because I can't seem to do anything right, or they're just too sad. So I feel like the more we talk about and make grief, especially because that's what happened in my situation, and my mom passed in 2020, and I'm coming through a whole grief journey. Because really, until you lose somebody really close to you and experience that gut-wrenching grief, no, you're not gonna be able to relate to other grievers, you're just not, but it's also because people, like I said, are scared of death, they don't know what to say, or they they want to cheer you up. Like there's this thing for grievers that, like, oh, your mom doesn't want you to be sad, and it's just I think for those situations with the new families or after a wedding or any of these big things, the again, it's about communication or understanding. But the more that grief and is getting talked about more now in public, the people are being more having longer dialogues of grief and understanding that it doesn't go away, right? So, but you have to accept that too. I'm not the same person I was where when my mom was on this planet and not. And so you're allowed, you're grieving that too. You're grieving a person you were. And so maybe some people don't like the new you. These can also be a lot of temporary times, so it could just be immediately afterwards, they don't know. So give room and compassion for these people to understand that these are very big just feelings that they don't know how to deal with. And it could be like maybe you had a baby, and somebody in your life is having a really hard time conceiving or single or struggling with whatever they have, and they can't be around that. So we don't know in those situations, but it's more these are situations where you're allowed to be selfish, like and you're allowed, but yeah, maybe we're not good at taking our friends' feelings into account. So I think this just should be approached with more education about what's happening mentally, physically, emotionally, right? And why those people might be ghosting. And I think, particularly for grief, it's just grief is scary to people. I think the motherhood thing is a million reasons. New moms also are very sleep-deprived, and yes, and then I think the rage ghosting we talked about. Rage ghosting is a little bit different, and this is for all my hot-headed friends out there, which is also can be an ADHD trait. Uh, I told you, I go to the crying, as you guys have probably heard on this podcast. Some ADHDers get really mad, like really quick tempers, really mad, and will say something in the heat of the moment and like just burn their life down, sort of thing. Uh, this is also common if you ever know people with borderline personality disorder. You said we talked about another day, maybe PMDD, which is pre-menstrual diphoric disorder. These are like this rage ghosting. It's like in that moment, there's no stopping. Like, it's like stopping in a wildfire, right? Like you can't. And again, those are such delicate situations because either the person will come out of their rage and be like, oh my god, what did I do? But maybe the person they ghosted isn't ready to talk to them again. So I think being understanding of that. Or like if you do have a friend who has like borderline personality disorder, this is something they call splitting. This is like an extreme reaction where they because they've experienced trauma in their life, that they they feel nobody, so they'll be like, Oh, I they'll take it out on you, but that's just their self-preservation and fear and their own mental health. So if you have somebody and you know they're BPD, just keep that in mind if they lose their mind on you. Yeah, right. I'm not saying that it should be abusive or anything where you're taking on this behavior, but I I mean in PMDD, which we might talk about another day, and BPD, these are examples of usually they don't mean it and it has nothing to do with you. And in those relationships, if people are like going to therapy, taking their meds, like doing all the things that they're doing to be healthy, it's really important for their friends to try to support them as much as they can to protect themselves, too. And even if you can't and you got rage ghosted by one of these people and they try to come back, you can be honest with them. But again, we're coming back to the same things: compassion, communication, understanding, and reflection.

Gretta: 48:45

I find this really fascinating, and I'm sure our listeners will definitely relate to a lot of this, and this is super helpful information. And just one last question for you is there anything else that we haven't covered that you'd like to share with listeners about ADHD and ghosting?

Speaker 1: 49:05

I think it's really good for to give us a wide berth for the responding and really, or the communication things that might lead up to ghosting too. So if you have a friend who has ADHD who's interrupting you, who's pissing you off, who who keeps forgetting, who's doing anything that's really out of their control, right? Because one of the executive functions we didn't talk about is self-awareness too. So we're not always really aware that we're doing this and we're not picking up that you're mad, like passive aggressiveness does not work on ADHD people. We're like, what are you talking about? Like, we're like, so it's really important. I think this is a parenting book by Dr. Barclay, but he named this chapter and I love it. Where is it? What is the book called? This is a parenting book, but uh Russell Barclay has a million books. He's one of the main um ADHD researchers out there, but he said, touch more, reward more, talk less. This is for being a parent of an ADHD person. So touch more, reward more, talk less. I read that. I'm like, that is good advice for anybody who has an ADHD person. So really, and what it means is like physical touch to get their attention, be like, Gretta, I'm gonna touch you. Gretta, I need you to pay attention to me, right? And then reward more. So instead of pointing out that they forgot to text you again, reinforce the good behavior. I really appreciate how much you're listening. Like, I can see because they're trying so hard and we don't get that appraised. And talk less. That's more for parents. Like, you can talk as much as you want as an adult, but it's more like if you want them to do something important, if you have an ADHD or that you want them to modify, change a behavior, do something specific. Yes, talk less. Get straight to the point. Got it. I need you to text me back within a week of texting you. I will send you two reminders. That's it. After that, it's on your own. Very clear. This book is called uh 12 Principles for Raising a Child with ADHD. But that one, I feel these are just good things for anybody with ADHD. That's so helpful. ADHD is just need to know when something's really important. Sometimes we will, but if we are seeming off, or and again, because it's not just we have traits that are fixed. Our traits change through our life, through the day, depending on if we're sleeping, eating, all of the things. So, really don't judge it just because they've been able to do something in the past and now they're not being able to do it. It just could be like that executive function, that trait of ADHD is harder for them at this point, like texting, whatever it could be. But reminders, yeah, I would say 90% of the time they just forgot. Yeah.

Gretta: 52:11

Oh, this is all such great advice. Thank you so much, Kate. Thank you.

Speaker 1: 52:16

Thank you for having me. And if you want to find me, I'm Kate Kamoshita, K-A-M-O-S-H-I-T-A. Means under the duck. Kamo means duck. Shita is under my Japanese last name. So we're the under duck. Kamoshita. Uh my website is my name. My Instagram is at learning.coms. I also have a virtual classroom, which is actually the name is changing. You can maybe you can get the big reveal. I'm in the middle of changing it. So my virtual classroom is now going to be called NeuroQuest. Love it. Yes. And we do, we're creating self-structured courses now for the summer about all sorts of topics like this about emotional regulation, about executive functions. And my class, my live class in the fall is going to be all about executive functions, which we've got a taste today, but I will go through all of them week by week. And my courses are taught live. And you don't have to have ADHD or diagnosis to come to the class. And if you are a neurotypical person coming in and wanting to learn more, you're definitely welcome to learn, but please yield to the ADHD people in terms of when they're expressing these things. I think I've yet to have too many neurotypicals come to my class, but I definitely want them to come and learn. We're inclusive for everyone. I just I do create these safe spaces for neurodivergence people to sort of get all that shame and guilt out. But yes, you can find me on Instagram, my website, my classroom, podcasts, anything. As an ADHD, I do a lot of things.

Gretta: 54:06

It's impressive. You're doing all the things, and I'm confident that the wisdom you share today will help a lot of people around the world.

Speaker 1: 54:17

So that makes me happy. And yeah, ghosting hurts, but it's really not you. It's not you. You can only control you. I think that that would be just advice that everybody needs to learn. But yes, yes, you can only control you. Yeah. It's a good way to end it. Thank you so much for having me and reaching out. And I hope that some of your listeners will reach out and connect.

Gretta: 54:46

I hope so too. And listeners, remember, when you are ghosted, you have more time to connect with yourself and people who have stellar communication skills. You deserve the best. Would you like to feel better after being ghosted? Maybe you can't put your phone down because you keep hoping your ghost will reach out, be online, or even post to social media. Perhaps you have some good days, but you can't stop thinking about them when your head hits the pillow at night. If you are feeling blindsided, used, angry, and betrayed, I'm really sorry that you're going through this. I've been ghosted one too many times, and I know that the struggle is real. But the good news is that I've uncovered the essentials needed for you to take your power back. In the Take Your Power Back workshop, my friend and fellow coach Estee K and I will help you understand why ghosting isn't personal, how to focus on yourself, upgrade your mindset, and build stability in your life after being ghosted. Our video workshop is under an hour, so you can pause and reflect and come back to any portion whenever you need it. Head over to copingwithghosting.com and take your power back today.