Ghosting and Narcissism, With Sterlin Mosley, Ph.D.

What is narcissism, why do narcissists ghost, and why do they return to haunt people? What is love bombing, and what is narcissistic discard? How can you safely leave a relationship with a narcissist?
In this episode of Coping With Ghosting, you'll learn the answers to all these questions and more. Gretta is joined by Sterlin Mosley, Ph.D., author of The Narcissist in You and Everyone Else, and CEO of Empathy Architects. In addition to delving into narcissism, their conversation touches on compassion, empathy, and Dr. Mosley's experience with ghosting.

Connect With  Sterlin Mosley, Ph.D.:

Websites:Empathy Architects and sterlinmosley.com

The Book:  The Narcissist in You and Everyone Else: Recognizing the 27 Types of Narcissism

Connect with Gretta:

Take Your Power Back Workshop

Free Guide: What to Say To Your Ghost

Free and Private Facebook Support Group |  Instagram | copingwithghosting.com

Music: "Ghosted" by Gustavo Zaiah

Disclaimer:  This information is designed to mentor and guide you to cope with Ghosting by cultivating a positive mindset and implementing self-care practices. It is for educational purposes only; it solely provides self-help tools for your use. Coping With Ghosting is not providing health care or psychological therapy services and is not diagnosing or treating any physical or mental ailment of the mind or body. The content is not a substitute for therapy or any advice given by a licensed psychologist or other licensed or other registered professionals. 

Transcript

Gretta 0:17

Welcome to Coping with Ghosting, the podcast that provides hope, healing, and understanding for anyone who has been ghosted. I'm Gretta, and today I'm joined by Sterlin Mosley, PhD, and we are going to be discussing narcissism and ghosting. Sterlin is an assistant professor of human relations at the University of Oklahoma and teaches classes on personality psychology, social change, cultural awareness, and women and gender studies. He holds a master's degree in human relations counseling, where he specialized in personality typologies and personality pathology and a PhD in intercultural communication. Dr. Mosley is the co-founder and CEO of Empathy Architects and recently released a book called The Narcissist in You and Everyone Else, recognizing the 27 types of narcissism. Welcome to Coping with Ghosting.

Sterlin Mosley, Ph.D. 1:14

Thank you. Thank you for having me, Gretta.

Gretta 1:16

I'm so happy you're here. This is a real treat for our listeners. This is such a buzzword right now. Narcissism, narcissist, narcissism, it's everywhere. Let's dive right in. What is narcissism? And in your opinion, how has pop psychology led to a misuse of it?

Speaker 1:35

Really good question. So narcissism is, I kind of like to boil it down. So at a basic level, I like to think about it as a relational personality style, right? So oftentimes when we think about narcissism, we're thinking about a narcissistic personality disorder, which is a clinical diagnosis. And so I am sort of working outside of that. I mean, even though I studied mental health counseling, I am not a practicing clinician. So I'm not diagnosing people, but I'm drawing on that knowledge that I gained in my master's degree and just my interest in personality. And to sort of help people understand that this is a relational style. And there are these sort of different personality types that can all be narcissistic. So if you think about narcissism on a spectrum, you have your average person who can have maybe some traits that could be considered selfish, or we all can do that, right? We all can preference our own needs or sometimes be callous or lack empathy. We all have that ability, but people that are narcissistic tend to not be able to get out of those behavioral patterns. And so their relationships with people are predicated on preferencing their own needs and self-aggrandizement and being definitely lacking empathy. That's one of the hallmarks of narcissism, is just being lacking empathy. Now, you can have low empathy, but something will stir it in you. And so for narcissists, sometimes it's just difficult to get them to empathize at times when perhaps they should, which is why we talk about it being a relational style, because it gets in the way of healthy functioning relationships and therefore can become problematic in that realm. And I also like to say it's a relational style because typically narcissists don't have a problem with themselves. Um, so being a narcissist isn't a problem until someone their needs are bumping up against someone else's and they can't shift gears. And that that's why it's more of a relational problem than personality disorder, in my opinion, because typically with a diagnosis, you would need to be experiencing a degree of interpersonal and intrapersonal suffering. And narcissists don't typically suffer with their narcissism, other people do. So yeah, it's a relational style. And then to answer the second part of your question, I think pop culture, on the one hand, I think everyone has experienced narcissism, whether it's in their families or in a relationship or at work, we have all encountered a narcissist at some point in time. But I think that people are quick to label any behavior that they don't like in someone as narcissistic. And really, you need to have a full picture of someone's history of behaving that way to be able to kind of use that term more broadly to describe someone. But at the same time, I think people that have suffered from narcissistic abuse are really happy that people are now recognizing it. I just think maybe we've gotten a little loose with how we use it and it's just popping up everywhere, maybe in places that it doesn't need to be.

Gretta 4:46

I pulled up a quote from the TV show Shits Creek. Um I love it too. Moiver Rose says social media is an amusement park for clinical narcissists.

Speaker 4:59

Yes. Yes, yes. It social media is, and I'm going to be talking about this in my second book that I'm starting to write more about the cultural effects of narcissism and why it's so prevalent. And I do think that narcissism, we actually have data to prove that narcissism has increased in people. And one of the, and especially in uh younger generations, I'm an I'm an elder millennial myself, and then you know, so millennials and Gen Z, and I can't I can't remember what the generation behind that is called, but what they're calling it. But anyway, uh there's been an increase in narcissistic traits amongst our generation and generation Z, and they're they're looking at social media as a cause for that because now with social media, um, and of course it could extend to any generation that uses social media, but with social media, you can be there's sort of a funny buzz phrase going around about having main character syndrome, right? And anyone can be the main character in their drama or the movie of their lives. And we all are to some extent, but with social media, you can now broadcast it and display it to the world. And there's become sort of a focus in living for living one's life for the consumption of others. This sort of need, the sort of exhibitionistic need that many narcissists have, where they need to be watched and have attention paid to them all the time. And so I think that social media sort of exacerbated it's been great for many things, and then it has sort of exacerbated some of our worst tendencies as humans. And so if you do have narcissistic tendencies, they could very easily grow with social media because you can all of a sudden get attention for anything and everything you say and do, right? So there's something more rose is onto something with that.

Gretta 6:53

I agree. And I wonder, in addition to social media, how does the prevalence of narcissism today impact our relationships?

Speaker 7:04

I have a client who I was working with, and she's just a regular, you know, everyday, normal, quote unquote normal mom. Um, and she was I was working with her in a coaching session, and and she was she started to wonder if her husband was a narcissist. And so we were talking about, you know, some of the things he does. He can be a little selfish at times, and she sort of has glimpses of him where the mask sort of drops and he can be kind of aggressive. And uh, but of course, everyone else loves him, right? And she he's very charismatic and very popular, but their lives have become consumed with his need. A, he's very perfectionistic, which anyone could be perfectionistic and not be a narcissist, but it's also he inflicts it on his family. So there's this need to display this certain image of their family on social media, and they have to, she's like, we can't even go to dinner somewhere without him needing us to like pose for a picture. And he's very particular about how we look, and and he's always reading comments online. And if he gets low engagement on a post, he wants to relive a moment that he's just having with his family. And she was like, and he doesn't seem to realize or care how it affects me or the kids when we just want to like be. And she's like, So his aggression, you know, his anger has sort of gotten worse around the social media thing, and and he's so disconnected from real life because he's living for public consumption. So I use that as an example to say that I think that if narcissism is present or someone has what I would call high degree or moderate to high degree of narcissism, and they are on social media, it's going to be exacerbated by the social media because there is a tendency for people who are more narcissistic to seek attention. And it's a very easy way to get attention, validation, external validation, and then shape your life for that consumption.

Gretta 9:08

That's so fascinating. And I know people like that. So it's kind of disturbing.

Speaker 9:15

Yes.

Gretta 9:16

So why do narcissists ghosts? And then why do they tend to come back?

Speaker 9:22

Yeah, good question. So narcissists often ghost because well, the the simplest answer is they're just they're done with you in that moment. And and it could be for various reasons. Now, depending on the nature of your relationship, I I had a romantic interest that I was ghosted by, just literally one day stopped talking to me. And it can be extremely traumatizing, as I'm sure you know, since this is why you started this podcast and why you want to spread this message, which I think is great. Sometimes they don't know how to deal with conflict or with difficult conversations, not all, depending on what type of narcissist they are, what personality style they have, they may not be good with conflict or difficult conversations, and they may just think it's easier just to stop talking to someone. And in their minds, they'll think, well, they'll just move on, or they'll be fine. So that's one kind of motivation for them ghosting. Another is just to be hurtful. They are angry, or they, especially if they have more kind of sociopathic kind of elements, then that could have been part of the plan, was just to sort of pique your interest, to seduce you in some way, and then just drop you. A lot of them also suffer from shiny object syndrome, as I call it, where it's someone else comes along and they're like, oh, I like that better. And then they can't manage you anymore. So then they shift their focus to someone else. So the motivations could vary depending on the personality style and, of course, the circumstances of the ghosting. But overall, it is it goes down to a lack of empathy. They're not able to think uh in that moment, how would I feel if someone did this to me? Because they become, they also would be hurt if someone ghosted them, right? And they would be very often get very angry. And how dare you, you know, who would ghost me, kind of thing. But they can't do that, they can't extend that to other people. And so narcissistic people tend to objectify others. You're not a full person, you're sort of a two-dimensional object, and they kind of pick you up, play with you, and put you down. So if think about maybe what we did with toys as a child, you're done playing with it, and then you throw it to the side. And that's a very common behavioral pattern for narcissists because they don't see you as a whole person, they preference their own feelings and emotions. And of course, if you hurt them, you'll never hear the end of it. But if they're done, they're done.

Gretta 12:05

That all makes sense to me and it pains my heart. So many people who I've coached have experienced a variation of that. And I just wonder why they tend to come back.

Speaker 12:19

They come back because they need supply. So you people may have heard this term used in in reference to narcissists. Narcissistic supply is your attention, your admiration, your consideration, your care, and they'll get it from anyone that they can get it from. They may have a favorite supply source at any given time. So if you're in a romantic relationship with them, you are probably going to be their primary source of supply. But it could be a boss, it could be a parent, but they come back because it could be that another supply source has dried up or they've tired of them, it's no longer novel. Again, depending on what their personality style could be different reasons that that supply source is has sort of dried up. Maybe that person figured it out and they're like, nope, no more of this. So then they circle back to other supply sources. If they have a fair amount of psychopathy, then there is a predatory nature to that where they like to see their influence over people. So I've even interviewed some narcissists for the book who talked about having a string of people. In this case, it was a man who had a string of women that he would do this with, where he would talk to them and seduce them and pull them in, and then he would get tired of it and he moved to another woman, and then that he would get tired of that one and go back to the other one. And he always thought it was a little amusing when he would go back to one of the old supply sources and they would get sucked back in. He was very charming, very charismatic. Well, it's more of your sort of conscious predatory narcissistic variation, but I think more common is they just the other person is no longer a good supply source and they want to go back to someone else. And they may be very apologetic, they maybe have seemingly very good reasons that make sense, but they expect for you to kind of pick them back up and deflate or reinflate their deflated sense of themselves. And that's a unfortunately a really common dynamic that people can get in is this sort of ghosting and then coming back and ghosting and coming back and until the person's finally finished.

Gretta 14:43

I'm horrified. It's so disturbing. Okay. So when they leave, is that called narcissistic discard?

Speaker 14:54

Yes. The discard is very, very common for narcissistic relationship dynamics, and it may everyone just feel awful when it happens because it makes you feel like that toy that's just flung to the side. So yes. There's also something where they discard you and they're still in relationship with you. So this happens in like marriage relationships or where you just over time you can tell you've become boring to them, and but they still keep you around. So there's sort of like a sort of form of ghosting where they don't really leave, but it's like an emotional ghosting where you just know you're not in the same place in their pedestal system.

Gretta 15:38

And can you share what love bombing is for the listeners?

Speaker 15:42

Yeah, love bombing is again another big buzzword, but I think it's good that people have are sort of becoming more aware of it. And it doesn't have to be in a love relationship, romantic relationship. I have been love bombed in a mentor dynamic before. It can happen with a boss, but it's where someone showers you with excessive levels of attention and attunement. Maybe they're extremely complementary, maybe they they make forever statements really early on. They're sort of talking about maybe some deep cosmic or spiritual connection. And that's not saying that those things don't exist. I think you can have those sorts of connections with people that can be really intense. But in the love bombing phase, this is something that the narcissistic person, or in even people who aren't narcissistic, can get into this pattern, use as a way to get close to you very quickly. And it's a way to deepen the relationship over a very short period of time so that you become it's a form of seduction. So you become sort of enamored and enraptured with them. And then the difference between someone genuinely expressing those things, and oftentimes the narcissist thinks, especially if it's a romantic relationship, and they're really into you, and then, like, yeah, we're going to be together forever, and you're my soulmate, and all of that. And some of them really believe it. The problem is, is they've probably done this multiple times with many people, right? And rather than looking at their own behavior and saying, No, I've seem to say this to everyone that I get into a relationship with. How can it be true of everyone? They just justify their behavior. I'm a passionate person, whatever. So you get sucked into it very, very quickly, and it feels great, right? It feels like you're the only person in the world that they're paying attention to, and you want more of it. So then your nervous system starts to um fear having that level of intensity, that emotional intensity that this person is building with you taken away. So you build this bond with them very, very quickly, but it doesn't take long, usually, if the person truly is narcissistic, for them to they sort of emotional breadcrumbing. So one day they'll be all about you and they can't be without you, and they want to talk to you, and they tell you everything, and you share your deepest, darkest secrets, and then you can't really get a hold of them, or they're not as receptive, or there's a sort of hot, cold feeling, and it's that pattern that early on in a dynamic that can sort of activate to varying degrees your serotonin and dopamine system start acting like someone would if they were addicted to something, right? Because you don't know when you're going to get it again. So whenever they're showering you with attention, you're like, okay, I'm getting my fix, as it were. And then when they stop, your nervous system goes into fight or flight. What did I do? And so this is how this sort of toxic dynamic is set up between the narcissist and the on the other person. But it is just showering someone with lots of attention, love, praise. They can be vulnerable in the love bombing phase, and that's something you don't usually see much of later because it's not real. It's it's a way, it's a form of seduction. So yeah, love bombing can be extremely destabilizing. I've even seen two people love bomb each other, which is not uncommon, and it that's an interesting dynamic, but usually it's just one person doing it to the other, and then the other person reciprocates. Because if you don't reciprocate, then you're afraid the love bombing will stop. And we like it, right? So yeah.

Gretta 19:31

What happened when two people love bombed each other?

Speaker 19:34

In this case, I mean, I've seen it multiple times, but in the in the incidents I was thinking of, it worked for a long time. They were both fairly narcissistic, right? So their whole relationship was sort of predicated on this overly romanticized fantasy world that they created. And they kept that dynamic up for quite a while, a few years, where they played, you know, it was very soap operay. Because there was all you'd have all the extreme dramatic fights and then the making up and then the extravagant apologies and all of that. And then I one of them just got tired of doing it. And when they were like, okay, I'm done with that. And I want to move on to something else. But we've all seen those. I think we see them on like reality shows when, you know, sometimes when people get in relationships where there's sort of extreme drama. But in real life, for most people, love bombing in retrospect, it just has sort of makes us feel icky because you realize, did they mean any of that? And oftentimes, if it's a relationship, we may hear about this person doing the same thing to someone else. After us or before us, if we are fortunate enough to be able to hear those relationship histories with people, then it can give us some perspective, but then it also can make you feel kind of gross. Like you just fell into this trap that you didn't know you were going to fall into.

Gretta 21:03

It's a trap.

Speaker 21:04

Yeah. Exactly.

Gretta 21:08

Well, how can listeners protect themselves from narcissist?

Speaker 21:13

Being informed is probably the best weapon against becoming a victim of narcissistic abuse. I think understanding what it is and what it isn't is important. And understanding that anyone, like I've mentioned at the beginning, any one of us can have momentary sort of lapses of, I sort of tongue-in-cheek say it's not, you know, that's why I titled the book, The Narcissist in You and Everyone Else. In reality, when we're being selfish or self-interested or have a temporary empathy shutdown, we're not narcissists, right? We are acting in selfish ways or preferencing ourselves, which sometimes you you have to do, right? As a human being, sometimes you just have to put yourself and your needs first. And for some people, it's really hard to do that, and it's important to do so. So understanding the difference between just your sort of normal, maybe empathy shutdown or selfishness and a pervasive pattern of narcissistic behavior. And that's why one of the reasons I wrote the book was to show that there's all these different iterations of what narcissism can look like, because I think in popular culture we have this very monolithic conception of like basically the grandiose narcissist, right? That's struts around and is really confident and cocky and maybe charismatic. And uh the truth is, is it has narcissism can take on lots of, well, 27 different costumes, depending on the personality style. So understanding that just because someone's really nice and seems to be positive all the time, but you know, you're around them and you think, well, they never can talk about anything serious. Or when I talk about something difficult going on, they change the subject and they just seem to be kind of flippant about it. That's could be a kind of narcissist. And people miss that one, or the the altruistic version of narcissism, where the person is their identity is around how giving and loving and helpful they are, right? But if you don't mirror that back to them, then you get this other side of them. And it can confuse people because they're like, well, they're very generous sometimes, right? And then sometimes they're not. And well, they can be narcissistic because they help me do this and this. But so I think being informed about the different variations that it can take is really important, and then also being able to sort of recognize how you feel around other people, right? And I think that just takes sort of pausing and checking in with ourselves and saying, like, okay, does do I feel invigorated around this person? Do I feel comfortable around this person? Or is there always something about my interaction with this person that makes me feel a little icky, whatever that means to you? And so a little bit of self-analysis about your relationships can be helpful. It's hardest when it's someone close to us, like a family member, a spouse, a child. I've had worked with clients who had to realize this about their children, and then work through like, did I do this to them? And no. Uh, you know, some there are some cases maybe where they're they helped it along, but I think those are the hardest for people to recognize. So you have to have a certain degree of honesty to be able to call it out, not to them because they don't care, but to yourself, and then and then make the choice as to whether or not you want to continue that relationship because sometimes you can't walk away from it. Sometimes it is apparent, or there's a financial security, the person, or for various reasons. So honesty about what's really going on is important.

Gretta 24:57

Okay, so the big question is how do you stop this relationship with the narcissist?

Speaker 25:04

I think that definitely is varies from situation to situation. There are some situations where ending the relationship with a narcissist can be dangerous, depending on how dependent you are on the person. I've worked with clients who their spouse is completely financially uh supporting them. And that's a not an uncommon dynamic for some people to get into with narcissists. And so there has to be a plan in that sort of uh situation of how you're going to gain more independence so that you can survive if they are more on the aggressive side. There can be lots of sort of issues to think about. And so in those situations, I always tell people they should work with narcissistic, trauma-informed therapists to help them develop a plan for how they're going to get out of that dynamic. In other cases where it's not that dire, some people are really good at just being like, I've worked with people that are like, I was just like, I'm this, I can't do this anymore. And they just end the relationship and cut them off completely. There will almost inevitably be a period where the narcissist is enraged and they will guilt trip you, uh attack you. Lots of different things can show up. I've had this happen with myself with a professional dynamic where the person, it's not uncommon for them to discard you and then they pop back up in their mind and they want to come back and say something to you or provoke you in some way to try to pull you back into the dynamic. So I think it just depends on the nature and the depth of the relationship. If it's a family relationship, sometimes it's just a matter of learning how to use different coping mechanisms when you're in around the person. So gray rocking, which some people may have been familiar with, where you just don't give them any emotional content and you keep things very surface. If they notice, sometimes it makes them mad, but there's not a lot. They may say, Well, you don't tell me anything anymore. I've had people that have parents that are narcissistic. And if you keep it very flat, they don't have anything to use to keep you in the dynamic, and it can actually be really empowering. So I think it just depends on the nature of the relationship, how you untie yourself from it. But if it is something where there's some level of uh danger or risk involved, then some people should work with someone who can help them chart out a plan that makes sense.

Gretta 27:39

That's great. That's really helpful advice. Thank you for that. Sure. You are the CEO of Empathy Architects. And I'm just curious, what's the difference between empathy and compassion?

Speaker 27:51

Really good question. I define empathy as a process, almost like a biopsychological process that happens. I do talk about in the book this varying levels of empathy from zero degrees of empathy to my scale goes from zero to seven. Empathy is a mixture of biological, environmental, genetic, and cognitive processes where we are able to feel, know, experience what someone else might be experiencing, at least from our own lens or perspective. So empathy sort of just happens or doesn't. And I do think you can develop more empathy. I've worked with people on it, it used to be believed for whatever reason that people on the spectrum lacked empathy, which just isn't true, right? They just have different ways of accessing their empathetic pathways, and it just doesn't look like neurotypical people sometimes. So I think you can develop empathy, you can sort of strengthen it. Some people have to stop and think like, okay, how would this affect someone around them? Other people don't have to do that. They just know it's almost like an intuitive or somatic just feeling of like, oh, I just feel what they're feeling, or I know something's going on with this person. And then compassion is sort of the action, uh, the verb, you will, to me, of empathy. Compassion is if you think of empathy as sort of like the raw materials, compassion is the more developed process that comes out of empathy. So it's what we use when we decide whether or not to tell that friend in that moment when they made a bad mistake that it was a bad mistake. If you're being compassionate, you're like, now's not the time to do that. They're suffering, we can talk about it later. Or knowing what to do in a particular situation where someone is suffering, what would the compassionate thing to do be? And also compassion for ourselves. So sometimes injecting compassion into a situation, we may want to intervene because our empathy is uh stoked, but maybe it would be detrimental to the other person and ourselves if we did intervene in a particular way and knowing when to do those things. So I think compassion involves a level of wisdom and is this more of this sort of actionable verb part of empathy. Sometimes compassion doesn't look the way people think it should look. Sometimes it can be more of like a tough love uh situation, and sometimes it can be like really being that person that gets in there and helps someone do something. So to me, it's the difference between this raw process of emotion or empathy and this actionable verb part that feeds into the compassion definition.

Gretta 30:47

I'm just really wondering, do you have compassion for people who have ghosted? You you mentioned somebody ghosted, you know.

Speaker 30:54

Yeah, I do. And much to my chagrin, I think I, you know, uh it took a little while for me to get there. I think in my situation, I think the person didn't know how to have an appropriate closure conversation because they lacked the emotional maturity to do so. And I also, because I knew of the trauma history of this person, it was hard for me not to have compassion for it while at the same time still being upset that it that it happened to me. So yeah, I think sometimes when we know the content that maybe created the ghosting behavior, it for me, it does help me to have compassion. It doesn't mean I will allow them to do that to me again. Um, I if I found when I was interviewing people for my book, I heard some really awful stories from narcissists about things they've done and they would tell them proudly. And even still in those moments, because I mean, at the root of it, narcissists are suffering just as much as anyone else, right? Their inability to be vulnerable turns into a mirage of confidence and all these things. So I think in those moments, I just would always think, oh, they must have really been suffering to be that difficult or hateful or whatever to someone else. It's an interesting experience to be able to hold both of those things at the same time, which I'm sure you've also experienced. Yeah.

Gretta 32:25

Yeah. Empathy has really helped me heal after being ghosted. Yeah.

Speaker 32:32

So exactly.

Gretta 32:34

Do you have any final words about ghosting in general?

Speaker 32:39

The hardest thing for me when I was ghosted, it's the uncertainty of like not knowing what happened, right? Like, what did I do? You go through everything and relive it. And what was so striking to me about it is that I really went like a grieving process, like you would with any relationship that ends, but it's almost like grieving a traumatic death that's sudden and which makes it that much more difficult to process through. So I would just always encourage people to be kind to themselves and recognize like you're grieving and you're grieving a traumatic loss because of how sudden it was, and to be kind to yourself during that process, like you would if you lost a loved one that died suddenly. I mean, you wouldn't I've I've seen people sort of bully themselves into not feeling or wanting to feel what they're feeling just because they were ghosted. And because, you know, well, it's just ghosting, but it's just as traumatic. It's a it's a traumatic loss. So that would be my parting thought is just to be kind to yourself, have compassion for yourself during that process because it is a traumatic loss that you experienced.

Gretta 33:50

I love that advice. Thank you. Let's wrap it up. Please tell listeners about your book. How can listeners find it, read it, and even connect with you?

Speaker 33:59

Yeah, the book is available on Amazon or Barnes Noble. I know that it's available on uh lots of online library systems as well if you request it. So they can also find a link on my website. It's just sterlingmosley.com or empathyarchitects.com, both are my websites. And I do have a course on my Empathy Architects website about narcissism and the 27 subtypes if people are interested in that. And also, I'm writing another book that will be out next year called Center of the Universe and talks about the cultural changes that have led to an increase in narcissistic traits and how we can offers practical strategies and how we can recognize these traits in ourselves and other people and also heal them. So I'm really passionate about that work. But yeah, sterlingmosely.com or empathyarchitects.com, and you can find everything you need to know about my work and what's going on.

Gretta 34:53

Perfect. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 34:56

You're welcome. Thank you so much for having me.

Gretta 34:59

And listeners, be sure to remember when you're ghosted, you have more time to connect with yourself and people who have stellar communication skills. You deserve the best. Do you want to feel better after being ghosted? Maybe you can't put your phone down because you keep on wishing that your ghost will reach out to you. Or maybe when you try to go to bed, you just can't stop thinking about them. And it's possible that you're feeling really angry and blindsided, used, or betrayed. If any of those things resonate with you, I'm really sorry that you're going through this because I have experienced all of it. I've been ghosted one too many times, and I know how hard this can be. And the good news is that I've uncovered the essentials needed for you to take your power back. In the Take Your Power Back workshop, my friend and fellow coach SDK and I will help you understand why ghosting isn't personal, how to focus on yourself, upgrade your mindset, and build stability in your life after being ghosted. Our video workshop is under an hour. So you can pause, reflect, and come back to any portion whenever you need it. It is a fraction of the cost of any coaching session out there. It's quite economical. I wanted to make it really accessible so that you can start feeling better today. So head over to copingwithghosting.com and take your power back.