Friendship Ghosting With Dr. Daryl Appleton

Has a friend ghosted you? Are you struggling to trust new friends after being ghosted in friendship? If so, this show is for you. In this episode, Gretta asks Dr. Daryl Appleton, M.ED, CAGS, LMHC, Ed.D.  questions about friendship ghosting from the Coping With Ghosting online communities, including: 

- Why do friends ghost? 
- What if a ghost returns and acts like nothing happened?
- Should you forgive a friend who ghosted you?
- What to do if you keep getting ghosted by different friends.
- How to have challenging conversations with friends.

And so much more. 

Connect With Dr. Daryl Appleton:
Dr. Daryl's Website
Feelings and Other F Words  (Apple Podcast)
Instagram
LinkedIn

Connect With Gretta:
Free Guide: What to Say To Your Ghost
Coaching With Gretta
Free and Private Facebook Support Group |  Instagram | copingwithghosting.com

BetterHelp:
Go to https://betterhelp.com/copingwithghosting for 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp and get matched with a therapist who will listen and help #sponsored

Music: "Ghosted" by Gustavo Zaiah

Disclaimer:  This information is designed to mentor and guide you to cope with Ghosting by cultivating a positive mindset and implementing self-care practices. It is for educational purposes only; it solely provides self-help tools for your use. Coping With Ghosting is not providing health care or psychological therapy services and is not diagnosing or treating any physical or mental ailment of the mind or body. The content is not a substitute for therapy or any advice given by a licensed psychologist or other licensed or other registered professionals. 

Transcript

Gretta 0:17

Welcome to Coping with Ghosting, the podcast that provides hope, healing, and understanding for anyone who has been ghosted. I'm your host, Gretta, and today's topic is friendship ghosting. My guest is Dr. Daryl Appleton, psychotherapist, expert coach, researcher in the fields of stress and success, and host of the incredible podcast, Feelings and Other F-Words. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. I am so happy that you're here. And listeners, if this is your first time tuning in to the Coping with Ghosting Podcast, I want you to know that the definition of ghosting that I use is from the Oxford Dictionary. It's defined as the practice of ending a personal relationship with someone by suddenly and without explanation, withdrawing from all communication. Note that ghosting is different from leaving an abusive situation without a goodbye. That's self-protection. It's also different from disappearing after a boundary has been violated. That's self-respect. Okay, Dr. Daryl, the questions I'm asking you today come directly from people in my coping with ghosting Instagram and Facebook communities. And the first one is unlike a marriage where there's commitment required, friendships are flexible relationships. In a friendship, you might drift slowly apart, but it can still go on forever. There's an expectation that friendships are supposed to last. So does this make friendship ghosting even more extreme than normal relationship ghosting?

Dr. Daryl Appleton 2:05

I think with our friends at the center of friendships, we want to feel accepted and we want to feel safe. And I don't think we talk a lot about how to sustain friendships through ups and downs, because we just that word you use, expect. We just have this expectation that this is my best friend since first grade, or this is my work best friend. And we, you know, spend every day together. So I think in the totality of friendships, we don't spend a lot of time talking about it, but yet we all seem to have these expectations around it. To answer the second part of the question of is it more extreme than normal relationships? Or I'm assuming that means romantic relationships, it can be. And it depends. So I think that when we are ghosted by a friend, the level of betrayal sometimes feels even deeper than somebody that we were dating, or even a family member that maybe we know is toxic, but we have a complicated relationship with. When somebody who's been in your life maybe for many years, or you've had a deep connection with for maybe not so many years, all of a sudden exits, it can feel like incredible heartbreak that you probably weren't as prepared for as you are in romantic relationships.

Gretta 3:23

Yeah, that makes sense. And with trauma, there's just no comparison.

Speaker 1 3:28

Right. And it hurts where it hurts. And I do think that that blindsided piece is a big part of the people that I've spoken to in therapy or just in everyday life. I think it's that blind side where you almost are a little bit ready to have a romantic relationship fail at some point, especially if you're dating. I don't think we're always ready to have a friendship fail because friendships are supposed to be additives. They're supposed to be fun and carefree and supportive, but sometimes it's not like that. And that's a very real thing that comes with a relationship with anybody.

Gretta 4:03

I couldn't agree with you more. So the next question is what might motivate someone to ghost a person who had perhaps for many years been a close friend?

Speaker 1 4:16

It's hard without knowing the situation and the person. And I think we could probably sit here and come up with a million different reasons, and they might all be valid and all invalid at the same time. So I think the best way I can explain it is to be the nerd that I am and kind of really discuss the research a bit. Our brains are wired to be negative and they're wired to avoid pain. And this is because, from an evolutionary perspective, things that are bad, my air quotes are out, things that are scary, things that elicit pain. And the brain doesn't know the difference between physical pain and emotional pain. So burning your hand on a stove or having somebody exit your life can register the same way in the brain. So this all means that when you are coming up with a difficult conversation, or if you have to confront somebody that's a friend and say to them, I no longer want to be your friend, or our relationship has changed, people will avoid this. And instead of stepping up to the plate and having the difficult conversation and feeling the anxiety and the pain and the uncomfortable feelings that are associated with it, the brain tells them to run and the brain will give them that escape. Social media, the way that we interact, um, our standards, societal standards have shifted now that it's okay to just not have this conversation. Again, outside the scope that you so wonderfully kind of gave us the disclaimer in the beginning. And it's not okay because we also know the research on the other end of being ghosted causes intense pain and causes issues around self-worth. And it makes us question things and it does create some element of trauma, whether that's big T, little T, and that can be depending on your past pain points or how your brain processes these things. So I can't say for a fact why friendships get ghosted, but I can say that it makes sense because the brain is predispositioned to avoid pain, why people would take that route. I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm not saying it's okay, but I am saying I understand why it happens from a behavioral and a cognitive perspective.

Gretta 6:31

That's a great way to explain it. And just for listeners who might not know the difference between the big T and the little T of trauma, could you please just share a little bit more about that?

Speaker 1 6:43

So, in my world of mental health, obviously you need to meet a diagnostic criteria for PTSD. So when I talk about big T, I'm talking about the clinical diagnosis of trauma, complex trauma, compounded trauma. Little T trauma can be something in your life that you feel impacted you. And I sometimes feel like we overuse the word trauma, but it is a useful word in helping to describe how we feel. So I truly believe in self-awareness. I truly believe in understanding that what you say and what you mean need to match up. So sometimes I tell my clients all the time: is this a big T or a little T trauma? Like, did your world shatter? Can you not get out of bed? Are you having all of these symptoms that are associated with true PTSD? Or is this something that's impacted you and it's hard to forgive? It's hard for to forget. You know, it feels like a thorn in your side, but your daily functioning is pretty much still there. That's also okay. That's also allowed. And sometimes separating out the two allows you to heal a little bit faster as well. And I think that's empowering and wildly important.

Gretta 7:48

Yeah, that makes sense. Somebody asks, I don't know why I was ghosted. How do I get past the not knowing? I keep blaming myself.

Speaker 1 8:01

I think that's probably something very common that comes up with ghosting. And you're the expert on this as this podcast host. I'm sure you talk about this very question a ton. And that's the thing. For me, there is nothing sexier than clear communication. Like, I love me some clear communication. Like, it's the sexiest thing in a friendship, in a relationship, in a job. Like, and I say sexy, I mean like wildly attractive and not just written in a romantic way. So there's something about clear and concise communication. I might not like what you have to say, but at least I know what you're talking about and where you're coming from. And I then have a part in this conversation with you. I then have a say in my actions and reactions. Because when you don't communicate with me, then my brain literally will fill in the blanks. And the story I tell myself, and this also stems from research, the story we tend to tell ourselves usually is worse than what the actual story is. Because again, the brain is inherently negative and we want to prepare for worst-case scenarios. So instead of this person ghosted me because they don't know how to have a healthy adult conversation, it then becomes I'm unlovable. And not only am I unlovable to romantic partners, I'm unlovable to my friends. And I think that again, like we were talking about in the beginning in that first question, like that hits on a deeper level of self-worth. So for all of you out there that are ghosting, knock it off, stop it. It's not healthy, it's not good. Have a healthy conversation and go from there, grow and evolve. But it is something that's hard to understand. And without having the communication of why you continue to get ghosted, I don't know. But what I do know is you deserve somebody that gives you healthy, sexy communication.

Gretta 9:56

Absolutely. I agree. It is one of the most attractive things people can do. And I've had really challenging conversations with my friends. It has not been easy for me. There was one girlfriend that were really good friends and I want to stay her friend forever. And yet something happened. It was a big deal. And honestly, I spent, I spent maybe a month preparing for a conversation that I had with her. She doesn't listen to this podcast, so I can say this. But I researched all the ways to use all my I statements and to not put all the blame on her for the thing that happened and to deliver this in a compliment sandwich. And it was, it was really scary for me. It was really hard. But ultimately, because of the work that I did on myself and around my communication skills, our friendship grew so much stronger. And we had a big conversation about it. Another great thing is that we had this conversation while we were walking and it was in public. So, you know, we couldn't get into big heated yelling argument or anything like that. It was just a calm, peaceful thing. Like we were moving our bodies. It felt like the energy was flowing in a great way. So those are just some tips. It's like if you have something big to say and it's really scary and it's really hard, then research some of the ways you can say it in a gentle way.

Speaker 1 11:25

And you are hitting lots of nails on the head in technique and in research. And again, I'm so such a nerd. So I bring this up all the time. But when you are using your I statements, it allows somebody to actually hear what you're saying because you're speaking about yourself versus you really hurt me. It's I felt really hurt, or I need clarity or understanding about why this happened because I value you. I value our friendship. Exactly. And practicing things like that to a friend or to somebody else in your life, or even out loud in the mirror, can help build confidence to actually say it. The other thing that you said that is wildly important is the setting and the spacing. So when I work with my executives and my CEOs, we talk a lot about nonverbal communication and we talk a lot about power dynamic in how people sit and stand. Walking with a friend side by side eliminates any power dynamic because when you're facing somebody, it then becomes way more intense. Where do I look? Where do I put my hands? Eye contact. But if we're moving our bodies, if we're standing side to side, if we're driving in a car next to each other and kind of trapped at the same point, we can have harder conversations. Anytime I have a difficult conversation with my husband, I tend to do it in the car, A, because he's trapped with me, and B, we're sitting next to each other and side by side. And as somebody who comes from a family of never having difficult conversations and marrying a therapist and marrying somebody who constantly wants to have difficult conversations, it allows him to feel as safe as possible in a situation that is probably more uncomfortable for him than me. Because again, it's my job. I'm used to it. And it is a skill that you can learn. It is something you can get better at. I don't ever expect anybody to feel comfortable having a difficult conversation, but feeling empowered to know that you can, sometimes having it and knowing that your friends, your romantic relationships, your boss, your coworkers can withstand that difficult conversation, can actually make things better in your relationship or tell you exactly who that person is by how they respond. Exactly.

Gretta 13:37

So if somebody is feeling like their friend is pulling away and they're concerned that maybe their friend will ghost them and they want to have that difficult conversation because everything in their mind is screaming, oh no, this person's gonna leave. How would you suggest going about that conversation?

Speaker 1 14:01

It's so wonderful to know that about yourself. Everything you just said, to even just be able to recognize in yourself, like, ooh, I'm worried this person's going to leave. That insight is your ground floor. That's your ground floor level of, okay, now I know why I feel the way that I do, because I've had it happen in the past, or because, you know, I have abandonment issues that I'm working on, or because like something feels off. And maybe I've never been ghosted, but I've never had this happen in my relationship or my friendship. Bringing that to the table sometimes in the most blunt way possible. And again, personality matters, how you show up in the world and what you feel comfortable with on a baseline matters. But even saying something like, hey, I just wanted to check in. Are we okay? Or I just want to say it like, it feels like it's been a little distant between us, and I care about you and I want to talk about that. Or do you mind if I speak out loud about something that's been on my mind? And finding your brand, so to speak, finding your way of speaking that makes sense to you, that feels authentic to you. Again, maybe not comfortable all the way, but feels authentic to who you are. Uh, and having those almost canned starts. And when I say canned starts, I mean you practice it, you have a list. Because sometimes having that initial intro into the conversations is the most important part and letting it flow from there. So again, I'm a Jersey girl, so I'm very direct in a lot of ways and how I speak, love it or hate it, I know. But I would say to my friends, like, hey, I just want to check in. Is everything okay between us? And that works for me. But finding what works for you is is again empowering and wildly important in any relationship that you're gonna find yourself in.

Gretta 15:50

I love that. This episode is sponsored by Better Help. So being ghosted can be extremely upsetting and overwhelming, like a punch to the gut. It can bring out past emotional wounds and intense feelings. And what really helps is talking about these issues with a therapist. Regardless of whether you have clinical mental health issues like depression or anxiety, or if you're just a human who lives in this world and is going through a hard time, therapy can give you tools to approach your life in a very different way. And that's why I'm excited to tell you about today's sponsor, BetterHelp. BetterHelp's mission is to make therapy more affordable and more accessible. And this is an important mission because finding a therapist can be really hard, especially when you're limited to the options in your area. BetterHelp is a platform that makes finding a therapist easier because it's online, it's remote, and by filling out a few questions, BetterHelp can match you to a professional therapist in as little as a few days. It's easy to sign up and get matched with a therapist. There's a link in my show notes, it's betterhelp.com/slash coping with ghosting. Clicking that link helps support my podcast, but it also gets you 10% off your first month of better help so you can connect with a therapist and see if it helps you. And because finding a therapist is a little like dating, if you don't really fit with that therapist, which is a common thing with therapy, you can easily switch to a new therapist at no additional cost without stressing about insurance, who's in your network, or anything like that. So therapy helped me overcome many challenges after being ghosted. It's truly an act of self-care and healing. So if you're struggling, consider online therapy with better help. Click the link in the show notes or visit betterhelp.com slash coping with ghosting. That's betterhelp.com slash coping with ghosting. Thank you again, BetterHelp, for supporting my podcast. The next question is I was ghosted by my bestie. How do I navigate interacting with our mutual friends? It's hard not to talk about it being painful, but I don't want to put them in the middle.

Speaker 1 18:28

Oof. I'm sure a lot of us have also dealt with this in our romantic lives. Like, who gets the friends in the divorce? Friendship is the same thing of like, now we have mutual friends, or we're going to run into each other, or people might be telling stories about this person. And I think everybody's going to kind of get a little bit tense in that moment because it feels awkward. I think you A, need to figure out where you're at with the relationship that has passed, so to speak, um, that has been dead now and gone, and figuring out what your boundaries are around it. So if your friends are constantly inviting this other person, do you need to know about it? And then you can decide whether or not you want to show up to this event. Or are they bringing up this person all the time? Or are you bringing up the other person all the time and maybe needing to listen to your friends' boundaries about whether or not they want to speak on this? But I think again, having that conversation of obviously me and Mary are not on speaking terms right now. I know you're still friends with her. How would you like to go about this? Is sometimes again sexy, really, really sexy, really clear. But also like it allows people to have a say in something that's uncomfortable. And there's tons of gray areas on. So again, with friendships, with mutual friends that are, you know, more people in the mix, having those conversations, allowing people to be a part of that process is also empowering to them. them to you and to the friendship.

Gretta 20:02

Communication is key. Yeah. What do I do if my ghost returns to my life and pretends nothing happened? That's annoying.

unknown 20:16

Right.

Speaker 1 20:17

I'm like shaking my head here because like, oh God, it really feels like a Casper, you know, the friendly ghost, like, oh, but I'm back. Hi, how are you? When we think about human beings and what it takes for human beings to be vulnerable and to interact with each other, to create friendship, right? Whatever friendship is, but the psychological structure of friends is built on trust. If you left me and without explanation and then show back up with no explanation, I don't know how somebody is able to trust somebody like that with any type of meaningful friendship moving forward. This doesn't mean you can't be cordial. This doesn't mean you can't choose to forgive. I talk about this a lot in toxic families and I talked about it on the Feelings and other F words podcast of cordial doesn't mean close. So you can pick to say like, you know what, we're going to ignore it, we're going to ignore it. But you don't deserve a front row seat to my life. I'm not going to tell you what's going on. I don't need to update you. I don't need to let you in, but we can hello, hi, we can see each other and say hi because that's for me. That's not for you. Because like I don't want to have that. If you feel like you need to have the conversation with them being like hi, no, you can't just start calling me again what happened? You are also absolutely allowed to do that. You can also choose not to pick up the phone. You can forgive somebody and not reconcile. Forgiveness also does not equal reconciliation. Forgiveness just means I've given up hope that the past will change and the present is going to be something that it was, but I can forgive that to let go and move on. Again, not for you but for me doesn't mean that we need to reconcile. So I think that's important for people to understand too forgiveness and reconciliation aren't the same thing. Cordial and close aren't the same thing. And when you can again I use the word empower a lot and it's like annoying because I keep saying it, but it's important when you can empower yourself with those choices of what do I want to define this relationship as the second half of your life begins. And now that intentionality of who I choose to have around me and who I choose to interact with is based on what you want and what you need, not what anybody else around you is thinking that you deserve or choosing to give you or not give you yeah I'm so glad you brought up forgiveness because that's a really big question.

Gretta 22:45

And I want to have a whole episode about forgiving just because we're on that topic how can somebody begin to forgive the person who ghosted them and is it necessary everybody's operational definition of forgiveness is different.

Speaker 1 23:06

So first figuring out what forgiveness means for you is important. And you can you can start with a dictionary you can start with your value system. I'm such a big again it's very on brand for me but I love self-awareness. Like I think that when we know about self, when we can understand self, we can do so much more in our world because we see choices differently we see situations differently when we understand how we're impacted by things. So even looking into how your family forgives or doesn't forgive or do they really forgive and then punish later on? Like what does that look like there's a whole lot of great work that can be done from forgiveness work and self-awareness work. And I truly believe that it leans itself and it lends itself into this concept of post-traumatic growth again big T, little T, that we can grow from difficult things. We aren't defined by difficult things doesn't mean they didn't happen doesn't mean we need to ignore it but it means like it can also source itself and stem from negative and grow into positive. So forgiveness you need to define what it is. I do believe that what you carry is the thing that you have to carry. It's an extra weight on you. So if you are not forgiving somebody and thus holding a grudge and every time their name comes up you feel viscerally really negatively about it. It does only impact you in that moment. And choosing to forgive again doesn't mean it's okay. I'm trusting that you're different now. It doesn't even mean it's okay. It means I need to let go of this for me not for you. You are who you are and that's who I need to accept you as. Doesn't mean I like it doesn't mean we need to be friends. It's just I understand who you are and I wish you the best. Or maybe I don't I wish you on your path to find whatever you need to find. But again forgiveness is a very big F-word and it's not something that's easy and it is very personal. So I think it's a really wonderful way to engage into self-work is to understand again like what forgiveness means to you and who you need to give it to or don't need to give it to and I think the other element is like can you forgive yourself?

Gretta 25:20

Is there stuff that you might need to say that you need to let go of for you and your own betterment and the relationship with yourself yes I have forgiven everybody who has ghosted me and I can say it is quite a huge weight off of my shoulders because we all know I've been ghosted one too many times. But it's just not worth it for me to have that what you were saying the visceral charge that charge that that icky feeling of energy whenever I hear their name or think about them. I just think okay this person is not in my life anymore. I want the best for them now we were incompatible they didn't have the communication skills that were necessary for a relationship with me and may they have the best life possible. Like I just I've grown around my grief and I've forgiven and I've moved on and I feel so much more at peace because of it.

Speaker 1 26:25

I think that's a hard thing to do and a noble thing to do. And I give you so much credit for doing it because it's not easy, right? But it is worth it. And I think sometimes we forget that and I think you know when we talk about forgiveness when you were talking the word rumination popped up in my head. Yeah. Sometimes when we forgive we stop self-obsessing or allowing ourselves to go down the rabbit hole of like remembering it's almost like a snowball that picks up stuff is like, oh I remembered this and then that and then that and all of a sudden like now I'm in a full a full rage or a panic or you know crying. But forgiveness sometimes allows us to step away and almost give us a self-boundary of like no I'm not going down there anymore. Nope not doing it. It's not worth it. Like we're moving on. We're moving forward. And sometimes that's what forgiveness looks like it doesn't look like the movies. It doesn't look like oh my God.

Gretta 27:19

So I think again like defining forgiveness and seeing how it impacts you is amazing and wonderful and a really great use of energy absolutely here's another question that comes in from Instagram how can I trust potential new friends after being ghosted in friendship?

Speaker 1 27:38

I think it's difficult because once you've been hurt that scar tissue remains so our brains grow and develop by our memories. So when you've touched the stove maybe you were little maybe you were like me you know last week and it's hot you're like oh God I need to really remember not to do that. Another kind of instance is if you've ever gotten into a fall or a slip or an accident or been really embarrassed anytime you pass that spot or a spot that looks like that, your brain will automatically remember what it is because it wants you again to avoid any type of pain. So if you've been ghosted meeting new friends or having friends that have similar traits to the person that ghosted you is going to trigger something in your memory your brain your prefrontal cortex all of that fancy stuff basically saying watch out. So in the beginning you may not be able to trust that they're going to ghost you or not but patterns of behavior are the best things to look at because how we feel about something is valid and it's real, but it is not necessarily a fact. I can feel like you're going to ghost me, but that doesn't actually make it true. The facts in human behavior tend to show up in patterns. So if you call when you say you're going to call if you show up when you say you're going to show up if you engage in behaviors that you have said you're going to engage in in a way that I then can trust or begin to trust that you say your thoughts and your feelings, your words and your actions are aligned, then all of a sudden I want you to open yourself up to being vulnerable to the possibility that this could actually be a friendship that you won't get ghosted in. Doesn't mean that that's entirely true, but sometimes when we hold onto our baggage and we be remain closed off for a long period of time without communicating to the other person that's what we're doing to protect ourselves, they can also feel like you are pushing them away and it also doesn't allow the friendship or the relationship to move forward or develop. So I think saying things to new friends like I love spending time with you, let's hang out. When you're late it makes me anxious I've just been left in places to be sitting there for hours at a time by friends before and I don't like it. Or it's really important that if we make plans, we make sure that it works for us because when I put a date in my calendar there's no such thing as a pencil in my life like I ink it in I think allowing people to know that about you also helps them understand that this is important to me and you showing up for me is important to me. But it is really hard and no you we can't trust right away that somebody won't do it but we can learn to trust absolutely and I think giving yourself that grace and understanding that that's also a process is incredibly important.

Gretta 30:43

I have a two-part question I thought this was such a good insight this comes in from my private Facebook group it's ghosting is ironically the most intrusive invasive destabilizing experience I've ever had someone not being there only makes them there more intensely. In my experience I find it really messed up that someone couldn't just say a few words to put something to rest I worry for him and I suffer too I want to know when I will stop obsessing and find peace and I'm actively seeking therapy. So that's part one. So I was just wondering what your thoughts are on that. That's real.

Speaker 1 31:26

That's real. And again we know in the research that being ghosted can erode self-esteem and self-worth and be a breeding ground for anxiety and depression and mental health issues. Not not all the time not not all the time but it can absolutely make symptoms worse if they pre-exist or if there's other things happening in your life at the same time I think you know I get chills when I when I hear you say that because it is very true by somebody not being there all of a sudden their presence is everywhere. And when we look again I hate me I hate that I'm such a nerd when we look at studies that looked at fMRI scans of the brain and they asked people in three different categories they had people who were in the throes of addiction to think about their drug of choice. They had people in the throes of romantic love to think about their person of choice. And they had people who had diagnosed OCD asked them to think about their compulsion or obsession of choice, the same area in the brain lit up. So when we think about relationships, when we think about you know love is kind of like the pinnacle but also friendship falls under that it does create an obsessive and a compulsive behavior. And this is where in I mean very Hollywood very Eros if you're looking at the Greeks you know seven words of love this obsessive love in the beginning you're thinking about them you're texting them you're engaging in these behaviors constantly because that's the fun quote unquote part in the beginning. But when they're not there, there's a withdrawal quite literally just like drugs, just like alcohol, even in that OCD of like I can't do my tapping counting cleaning again whatever and not all OCD looks like that. But there is this element of a withdrawal that happens and our brain and our bodies literally go through this process of now I'm obsessing about how I can get it again, how I can get that high or just one more conversation, just one more text to them, just one more conversation with my friend about them, just one more peek at their Instagram. So it is intense and I love that this person is seeking therapy not because there's anything wrong with them, but because this is a pain point in their life and that's why people like therapists exist in the world not to diagnose you with something but to allow you to work through something that's impacting you in a current place to keep it from spreading into other areas of your life. So that it's very poetic in this like very you know very Poe kind of way, right? But it's a really great lens into what ghosting can absolutely do.

Gretta 34:10

Mm-hmm. Yeah it's incredibly challenging to say the very least for many people so that's a great explanation I love that you're putting in all this research that's great. That's very helpful to hear I love it. I'm a nerd too so I get it I'm in good company then. Yes. Part two of the question is I have perhaps an unpopular thought on it. My ghosts disrupted invaded and intruded upon me by their actions is it crazy to blast them with texts or approach them after all they put me in a really uncomfortable position due to their issues isn't it only fair to let them know what discomfort feels like I'm not encouraging any kind of unsafe stalker behavior. No, not at all. Please don't do that my question is more theoretical and philosophical I like that caveat because I agree with you.

Speaker 1 35:13

When you hear you say that the phrase hurt people hurt people comes up and you're not necessarily going to get what you want or what you need by even if they did respond, it may not be the response that you want and you may not get closure whatever whatever closure means right so I I don't think it's crazy to think that. Again I think that that um again obsessive in the example that I gave before the obsessive piece from a clinical standpoint of wanting to makes sense and it makes sense from a baseline human emotional level because we're being triggered because there's almost this addictive quality to friendships to love neuropeptide oxytocin is literally the love chemical that releases in our heads it allows us to be intimate with other people because when you think about intimacy sex I'm talking about it's a very very very vulnerable thing. So in order for us to procreate we need to feel something women have it more than men because it bonds us to babies it's why we don't just leave our babies on the side of the road when they start crying it allows us to feel connected to something. So historically men also can have it and I don't know the research around when we're talking about all different genders and things like that. But when I'm talking about this from a scientific perspective what I do know is that women will feel this more intensely. So when there's not that neuropeptide oxytocin there, when there's not that bonding agent that's then full filling your cup in, you go through that withdrawal. So the obsessive piece of wanting to text, wanting to reach out, wanting to make them uncomfortable makes sense again to me on a brain and behavior level. I will say on the other end of doing it, it may not help. It probably won't help I would rather you use that energy to go towards something more productive because at the end of the day that's what it is it is an expulsion of energy. So I would rather you have a better return on your investment of where you put your energy but I also know from working with clients over these years you're going to do what you want anyway and you're you're going to have to come to that decision on your own. But if you hear my words your words Gretta for all of you listening out there take an inventory because you only have so much time you only have so much energy literally in your day in your world in your life I want you to conserve your energy because it is the one thing that you're not going to be able to get back. And I want you to put it to something that is more helpful and more beneficial to you in the long run.

Gretta 37:50

I can give an example of this. So somebody ghosted me and I wanted to glitter bomb their car so bad. But I took the money that I probably would have spent on the glitter bomb and I went and I got a massage I love but did I fantasize about the glitter bomb? Oh yeah it made me feel better.

Speaker 1 38:13

And I think that's also something we need to talk about too with like it's okay to fantasize about these things. And sometimes even just being like you know what I could but I'm not going to is empowering in itself. And again allowing yourself grace like I don't expect anybody who's been ghosted to be like I'm going to be the bigger person and here I am and I'm going to forgive and forget. No I expect you to have a human emotion and a human reaction. But to your own benefit allow your choices to be the thing that allows you to be on a massage table rather than potentially you know getting a knock on your door from the police.

unknown 38:52

Right.

Gretta 38:53

Right smart choices okay all right this is a big question what would you suggest for somebody who keeps on getting ghosted by friends over and over and over again that this has become a pattern.

Speaker 1 39:18

Patterns are information and I believe in patterns wholeheartedly and what that means is something is showing up in your life whether that's the friends you're choosing whether that's the behaviors you are choosing to engage in there's something that needs to be explored. So if you're finding that every person that you have ever been friends with suddenly ghosts you if you were sitting in my chair or I'm assuming if somebody were like me were talking to you, they would have you look at what the common factors are underlying all of this. So again if you're choosing emotionally unavailable people and yes friends can also Be emotionally unavailable, you may be setting yourself up, and there might be this latent self-sabotage that then allows this narrative of everybody leaves me to be true. Because sometimes we can do that. Sometimes it's easier to go for the unavailable friend. And an unavailable friend may look like somebody that uh just had a new baby and cannot be the best friend that they can be. Um, emotionally unavailable friends might be somebody that's going through a divorce or going through the death of a loved one, or somebody that historically doesn't have a lot of close friends and has never had a lot of close friends, but it's your quest to be their close friend. They might not have those skills uh yet or ever. So knowing the type of person that may be a pattern that you're trying to seek out, but also in yourself. And this is where I love therapy, I love coaching. It doesn't mean anything is wrong with you. Again, knowledge is power, but allowing yourself to be open to the possibility that sometimes it is us, and that's okay. It doesn't mean you're wrong or broken. It just means maybe there's a better way I can show up. And I would love for somebody to tell me that. Again, I'm a Jersey girl. If you come shopping with me and you put on a top and you're like, do you like this on me? You better be ready to receive the honest answer. I will never be like, no, you look gross, take it off. But I will say, let's find something that might fit your curves a little bit better. This is not doing you justice and you are gorgeous, and let's go get you a top that makes you feel as wonderful as you actually look to me. So I think it's important too to be able to be open to feedback about ourselves. And feedback isn't feedback is an F-word, but it doesn't have to be. And again, like I think that when we engage in that and we work on ourselves in a productive way, doesn't mean that we're the ones in the wrong. It just means we can make smarter, more intentional choices and allow our lives to go in the direction that we truly want them to, with the people that we truly want in them, whether that's again love, friendship, or whoever.

Gretta 42:04

Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with listeners about friendship ghosting?

Speaker 1 42:12

I think it's important to know that it happens. And I think it's important to understand that it does hurt and it's allowed to hurt. And what you do with that hurt is ultimately your choice. You are allowed to be the hero in your story. You are allowed to grow and have wonderful things happen in your life, despite terrible things being there. And sometimes looking at hurt like this, especially from a friend and the betrayal that comes along with it as a chapter in your story and not your entire story can be a really great way to move ahead in your journey. So you're not alone and it's not uncommon. And I think having podcasts like this and having a community like you've built, Gretta, is a wonderful thing to lean into to know that we're not alone in a place where we might feel really, really alone. So I'm cheering all of you on aggressively because it is not an easy thing. But I know you all are smart, capable human beings that can absolutely do hard things.

Gretta 43:14

Thank you so much for those really kind words. That's great. How can listeners connect with you?

Speaker 1 43:24

You can connect with me through the World Wide Web. You can find me on Instagram at Dr. Daryl Appleton. Um, you can listen to the podcast, Feelings and Other F words, which I'm you're the first person I'm telling. So this is exciting. There will be a season two of. I know, I know it was uh a hard task to see. Um, if it would even come to fruition, but I've decided I'm gonna do it. Uh you can visit me on my website at uh drdarylapleton.com.

Gretta 43:56

Thank you so much. Thank you for joining me today.

Speaker 1 43:59

Thank you for having me, and thank you, listeners, for listening to this. And Gretta is wonderful, and I'm glad that she's in your corner.

Gretta 44:07

And listeners, be sure to remember when you are ghosted, you have more time to connect with yourself and people who have stellar communication skills. You deserve the best.