Coping With Ghosting

Healing from Betrayal: Insights and Strategies with Dr. Debi Silber

• Gretta

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Being ghosted can shatter your entire sense of self—but what if it could also pave the way for profound personal transformation? Join Gretta as she interviews Dr. Debi Silber, the founder of the Post Betrayal Transformation® Institute, to explore her journey from experiencing deep betrayal to becoming an expert in the field. Dr. Silber shares insights from her groundbreaking PhD study, revealing how betrayal (including ghosting) affects the mind, body, and heart. You'll learn about post betrayal transformation, a complete rebuild of one’s life, and the symptoms of post betrayal syndrome that many suffer in silence.
Dr. Silber shares:
- The five stages of healing from betrayal, shedding light on the predictable process that begins with shock and often stalls at survival instincts.
- The importance of balancing physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual healing to avoid instability and achieve full recovery.
- How to rebuild trust.
- Ways for the ghost or betrayer to heal themselves.
Connect with Dr. Silber:
The PBT® Institute

Connect With Gretta:
Take Your Power Back Workshop
Free and Private Facebook Support Group |  Instagram | copingwithghosting.com

BetterHelp:
Go to https://betterhelp.com/copingwithghosting for 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp and get matched with a therapist who will listen and help #sponsored

Music: "Ghosted" by Gustavo Zaiah

Disclaimer: This information is designed to mentor and guide you to cope with Ghosting by cultivating a positive mindset and implementing self-care practices. It is for educational purposes only; it solely provides self-help tools for your use. Coping With Ghosting is not providing health care or psychological therapy services and is not diagnosing or treating any physical or mental ailment of the mind or body. The content is not a substitute for therapy or any advice given by a licensed psychologist or other licensed or other registered professionals. 

Ghosted? We've got you covered. Download Coping With Ghosting 101. This workshop's designed to help you better understand why ghosting happens, ways to feel better now, and actionable steps to take your power back. Your purchase will help support this podcast, so it’s a win-win!

Note to All Listeners: Ghosting is defined as: The practice of ending a personal relationship with someone by suddenly and without explanation withdrawing from all communication (Oxford Languages).
When you leave an abusive situation without saying "goodbye," it's not ghosting, it's "self-protection." When you quietly exit a relationship after a boundary has been violated, it's not ghosting, it's "self-respect."

Gretta:

Welcome to Coping with Ghosting, the podcast that provides hope, healing and understanding for anyone who's been ghosted. I'm your host, Gretta, and today's topic is post-betrayal transformation, or PBT. My guest is Dr. Debi Silber. Dr. Silber is the founder of the PBT Institute and is a holistic psychologist, a health mindset and personal development expert, and is a two-time number one international bestselling author. Her podcast from Betrayal to Breakthrough is also globally ranked within the top 1.5% of podcasts. Her recent PhD study on how we experience betrayal made three groundbreaking discoveries that changes how long it takes to heal. In addition to being on Fox, cbs, the Dr Oz Show, tedx twice and more, she's an award-winning speaker and coach dedicated to helping people move past their betrayals as well as any other blocks preventing them from the health, work, relationships, confidence and happiness they want most. Dr. Silber and happiness they want most.

Gretta:

Dr. Silber, thank you for joining me.

Dr. Silber:

Looking forward to this conversation. Please call me Debi.

Gretta:

I'd love for you to share your story with listeners.

Gretta:

How and why did you become an expert in betrayal?

Dr. Silber:

Yeah, so I don't think anybody says you know, I think I like the topic of betrayal. Let me study that. No, you study because you have to. I've been in business 32 years health, mindset, personal development and then I had a painful betrayal from my family and thought I did everything I needed to do to heal from that. And then it happened again a few years later. This time it was my husband. So anybody who's been through that, you're shocked, you're devastated, blindsided. That's how I was. And so I got them out of the house. That was the deal breaker.

Dr. Silber:

I looked at the two experiences, thinking well, what's similar here? Of course me, but what else? And I realized that I never even was like on my own to-do list, you know, it was always about everybody else. So here I was four kids, six dogs, a thriving business and I decided to go back for a PhD. Like there was no book on this, there was no program on this, so I decided to just get a whole PhD in it. And then it was time to do a study. So I studied. It was in transpersonal psychology, the psychology of transformation and human potential. And then I had to do a study, so I studied betrayal and honestly I studied it just to get myself out of this jam, so I could be better for my kids and my clients, and I did not see this coming. But that study made three groundbreaking discoveries which changed my health, my family, my work, my life.

Gretta:

And what were the key findings?

Dr. Silber:

my work, my life, and what were the key findings? So the first one was I had a feeling that betrayal was a different type of trauma. I'd been through death of a loved one, I'd been through disease, but I was like betrayal feels different. I didn't want to assume it was the same for all my study participants, so I asked them if you've been through other traumas besides betrayal, does it feel different for you? And every single one of them said oh my gosh, it's so different. And here's why Because it feels so intentional, we take it so personally.

Dr. Silber:

So the whole entire self gets shattered and has to be rebuilt. Rejection, abandonment, belonging confidence, worthiness, trust they're shattered. Belonging confidence, worthiness, trust they're shattered. So that type of healing needed its own name, because you're not only rebuilding your life, which is the invitation with all traumas, but you also have to rebuild yourself. So I coined a new term post-betrayal transformation the complete and total rebuild of your life and yourself after an experience with betrayal. So that betrayal is a different type of trauma. That was the first discovery. Want me to go to the second one.

Gretta:

Oh, and also I guess I wonder if you could just define betrayal for the listeners. What's your definition of it?

Dr. Silber:

My definition is it's the breaking of a spoken or unspoken rule, and every relationship has them. But the way it works is the more you trust and the more you depend on that person, the deeper the betrayal. So let's take a child who's totally dependent on their parent and the parent does something awful. That's going to have a different impact than, let's say, your best friend sharing your secret, your coworker taking credit for your idea. They're both betrayals, but there's a different kind of level of cleanup left in the way, different level of magnitude. Does that make sense?

Gretta:

Absolutely, and ghosting is betrayal.

Dr. Silber:

Absolutely, because you had this spoken or unspoken agreement. We're dating, we're seeing each other, we're married, whatever it is, and then, all of a sudden, where are they? That is definitely a betrayal. Yeah, so it's that. And what's unique to betrayal is the shock. It's like someone just takes a mask off. It's like we think we know this person and then, without our awareness or consent, all of a sudden it's like what happened here. I was going along with the spoken or unspoken rules. Where'd you go? So, absolutely it's a betrayal and it's that shock piece that lands on our body, our mind, our heart. That's why it requires a very different way to heal and that's also why it leaves us with a lot of these symptoms of post betrayal syndrome. That was the second discovery. Want me to go through that one.

Gretta:

Oh, absolutely. What are the symptoms?

Dr. Silber:

Yeah. So you know, this was another one where I thought well, it's really interesting how it seems like people who are struggling to heal from betrayal all kind of have the same symptoms and they do. And what you know, we have our post-betrayal syndrome quiz on our site to see to what extent someone's struggling. We've had, I think, over 95,000 people take it, and a few things about that. The first thing is we've all been taught time heals all wounds. Well, I have the proof that when it comes to betrayal, that's not true. It's not true. You can't count on time, you can't count on a new relationship to heal betrayal. You need to intentionally and deliberately heal it because until and unless you do, it will follow you around in every relationship you have. So, and I'll mention the symptoms. But that's a really big misconception. And you know there's a question on the quiz that says is there anything else you'd like to share? And people write things like my betrayal happened 35 years ago and I'm unwilling to trust my betrayal happened 10 years ago. It feels like it happened yesterday. So we see, betrayal is this long lasting without intentionally healing it, this long lasting event that seeps into everything. You do so anyway, every few months.

Dr. Silber:

I pulled the stats from the quiz, happy to share them. I would. Yeah, okay. So imagine 95,000 people men, women, just about every country's represented here. So and pay attention to these numbers because they're super high 78% then we're talking about 95,000 people. 78% constantly revisit their experience. 81% feel a loss of personal power. 94% deal with painful triggers and if you've ever had a trigger, they can take you right down.

Dr. Silber:

The most common physical symptoms 71% have low energy. 68% have sleep issues. 63% have extreme fatigue. Your adrenals have crashed. You wake up in the morning you're exhausted. You slept all night, it doesn't matter. 47% have weight changes. So maybe in the beginning you can't hold food down. Later on you're emotionally eating. You're using food for comfort. 45% have a digestive issue. That could be anything Crohn's, ibs, diverticulitis, constipation, diarrhea, you name it. The most common mental symptoms 78% are overwhelmed. 70% are walking around in a state of disbelief. 64% are in shock. 62% can't concentrate. So imagine you can't concentrate. You're exhausted, you have a gut issue. You still have to work. You still have to raise your kids. You still have to do what you have to do. That's not even emotionally. Emotionally, 88% experience extreme sadness. 83% are very angry. You can go back and forth between those two all day long. 79% are stressed. Just a few more. Here's why I wrote the book Trust again this one got me.

Dr. Silber:

84% have an inability to trust. 84% Think about how that will impact you. 67% are preventing themselves from forming deep relationships because they were afraid of being hurt again. 82% find it hard to move forward. 90% want to move forward, but they don't know how this is painful to listen to.

Gretta:

It's so upsetting and sad.

Dr. Silber:

I mean the good news is, you can heal from all of it. And that's the third discovery. What's even more staggering about those numbers? You didn't hear me say 20%, 30%. These numbers are super high. They're also not necessarily from a recent betrayal. This could be from that parent who did something awful when you were a kid. This could be from that partner who broke your heart in high school. So think about this. That person may not know care, remember. They may not even be alive. And here we are, decades later with symptoms because of something left unhealed.

Dr. Silber:

The good news is.

Dr. Silber:

You can heal from all of it.

Dr. Silber:

That's a discovery, yeah, you know. The good news is you can heal from all of it. That's discovery, yeah, you know. And just to really show what like the extent of how long this stuff can can last, we have a person in our community woman in our community. She's in her mid-80s. She had a 70 plus year digestive issue from a family betrayal when she was a little kid. So imagine a digestive issue for 70 plus years. Two weeks into our program she healed from a 70 plus year digestive issue.

Gretta:

I just got chills. That's incredible.

Dr. Silber:

I mean, that's what happens because we're doing the same thing, thinking, well, time will heal it, right? No, so when I moved, when I explained the third discovery and walk you through it, you will see exactly why we can have symptoms for 70 years if we're not careful. Want me to go through the third one? Oh, yes, please, okay.

Dr. Silber:

For me, this was the most exciting, and what we learned was while we can stay stuck for years. What we learn was while we can stay stuck for years, decades, 70, you know, years more, a lifetime if we're going to fully heal and by fully heal I mean those symptoms of post betrayal syndrome like I just shared to this completely rebuilt place called post betrayal transformation. We're going to go through five proven, predictable stages, and what's even more exciting about that is we know what happens physically, mentally and emotionally at every stage, and we know what's needed in order to move from one stage to the next. Healing has now become entirely predictable and I'm happy to share the stages if you want to hear them. Oh, yes, please, okay, because that would have been really awkward if you said, no, hear them. Oh, yes, please, okay, cause that would have been really awkward if you said no.

Gretta:

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Being ghosted can be heartbreaking. It can bring up intense feelings and open past emotional wounds. And what can really help is talking about these issues with a therapist, because, regardless of whether you have a clinical mental health issue like depression or anxiety, or if you're just a human who lives in this world and is going through a hard time, therapy can give you the tools to approach your life in a very different way. After being ghosted, therapy helped me handle challenging emotions and cultivate self-compassion. It was a game changer, and that's why I'm happy to tell you about today's sponsor, betterhelp.

Gretta:

Betterhelp connects you with a licensed therapist, trained to listen and provide helpful, unbiased advice. You can visit their site using my link, betterhelpcom slash coping with ghosting, and all you need to do is answer a few questions and BetterHelp will match you to a professional who has years of experience helping people with struggles similar to yours. You can do this all from your phone or computer, via phone call, video chat or messaging, whatever's most comfortable for you. So visit betterhelp. com/ coping with ghosting, or choose coping with ghosting during signup and enjoy a special discount on your first month. The direct link is also in my show notes.

Dr. Silber:

So this is all we do within the PBT Institute. This is all our coaches are. You know everything they're certified in. It's written in trust. Again, I'm going to give you a boiled down version of it right here. So stage one is before it happens, and if you can imagine four legs of a table, the four legs being physical, mental, emotional and spiritual what I saw with everybody me too was a heavy lean on the physical and mental thinking and doing we're so good at that and kind of neglecting or ignoring the emotional and the spiritual feeling and being. Well, if a table only has two legs, it's easy for that table to topple over. Right, that's us.

Dr. Silber:

Stage two shock, trauma, d-day, discovery day, like the day you get ghosted. Right, and this is the scariest out of all of the stages. Here's the shock, right here, and it's the breakdown of the body, the mind and the worldview. So, right here, you've ignited the stress response. You're now headed for every single stress-related symptom, illness, condition, disease. Your mind is in a complete state of chaos and overwhelm. You cannot wrap your mind around what just happened.

Dr. Silber:

This makes no sense. How could this person be in my life today and yesterday and today? Where are they? Right? It's like that and your worldview is is completely shattered. Your worldview. Those are the rules that govern you, that prevent chaos. Trust this person. Go here, don't go there, don't do that. Do this Right and in one earth shattering moment we're serious of moments Every rule you've been holding to be real and true is no longer. The bottom has bottomed out on you and a new bottom hasn't been formed yet. This is terrifying, but think about it. If the bottom were to bottom out on you, what would you do? You grab hold of anyone or or anything right, In order to stay safe and stay alive.

Dr. Silber:

And that's stage three. Survival instincts emerge. It's the most practical out of all of the stages. If you can't help me get out of my way, how do I survive this? Who can I trust? Here's the trap, though. Stage three by far is the most common place we get stuck is the most commonplace we get stuck. And here's why, once we've figured out how to survive our experience because it feels so much better than the shock and trauma of where we just came from we think it's good. We're like okay, I got it. And because we don't know there's anywhere else to go, we don't know. There's a stage four or stage five, right, we don't know that. So we plant roots here. We're not supposed to, but we don't know that.

Dr. Silber:

And then four things start to happen. The first thing is we start getting these small self-benefits. We get to be right. We get our story, we love our story. We get someone to blame, we get a target for our anger. We get sympathy from everyone. We tell our story to on and on, and on some level we feel we're not getting much else. So we take this. And so we plant deeper roots. We're not supposed to, but we don't know.

Dr. Silber:

And now, because we're here longer than we should be, the mind starts doing things, like you know, maybe you're not that great, maybe you deserved it, maybe this, maybe that right. And so we plant deeper roots and now, because we're here longer than we should be, and these are the thoughts, we're thinking well, this is the energy we start putting out and, like energy attracts, like energy, right. So now we start calling people and circumstances and even new relationships towards us to confirm Yep, this is where you belong, like right here is where you join that lame support group and you will actually sabotage your healing because you found your people. This is where you go back to the betrayer who has no intention of changing, because you're afraid to be alone. You see, it gets worse, but I'll get you out of here because it feels so bad, but we don't know there's anywhere else to go.

Dr. Silber:

We're miserable, but we're like there's anywhere else to go. We're miserable, but we're like I got to get through my day, right. So, right here we start numbing, avoiding, distracting. So, right here, we start using food, drugs, alcohol, you know, work, tv, whatever to avoid and distract ourselves from this painful place. So we do it for a day, a week, a month. Now it's a habit a year, 10 years, 20 years and 70 years right yeah, someone 20 years later and say you know that emotional eating you're doing or that numbing whatever. Do you think that has anything to do with your betrayal? They look at me like I'm crazy. It happened 20 years ago. What are you talking about? All they did was put themselves in stage three and stay there.

Gretta:

Does that make sense? Yes, absolutely so. How? So how do people get out of stage three?

Dr. Silber:

Yeah, and that stage three is. I wrote a whole book on stage three, from Harden to Yield, because I was like you've been through the worst of it already. Why in the world are you settling for the worst place to be after your experience? You owe it to yourself to have that transformation which is waiting for you in stages four and five. Anyway, if you're willing willingness is a big word right here willing to grieve the loss, let go of your story, let go of a bunch of different things, a few things you have to do, know, let go of your story, let go of a bunch of different things, a few things you have to do, you can move to stage four. Stage four is finding and adjusting to a new normal. So here's where you acknowledge I can't undo what happened, but I control what I do with it. Right there, in that decision, you're turning down the stress response. You're not healing just yet, but at least you stopped the massive damage you were accumulating in stages two and stage three.

Dr. Silber:

Stage four feels like if you've ever moved, if you've ever moved to a new house, office, condo, apartment, whatever, like all your stuff's not there, it's not cozy yet, but you're like we can do this, we got this, okay, it feels like that. But what's so interesting is, if you were to move, you do this. We got this, okay, it feels like that. But what's so interesting is, if you were to move, you don't take everything with you, right Like you don't take those things that don't represent who you want to be once you're in this new space and what I found was if your friends weren't there for you, you're done with them right here. That lame support group you're done. That betrayer who won't change you're done. And that's why people say to me all the time what the heck I've had these friends 10, 20, 30 years. Is it me? Yes, it is. You're undergoing a transformation and if they don't rise, they don't come. So changing relationships really common as we move from stage three to stage four.

Dr. Silber:

Anyway, when we settle into this new space, we make it cozy, we make it kind of mentally home. We move into the fifth, most beautiful stage, and this is healing, rebirth and a new worldview. The body starts to heal Self-love, self-care, eating well, exercise. We didn't have the bandwidth for that earlier, we were surviving, now we do. Your mind is healing. We're making new rules, new boundaries, you know, based on everything we see so clearly now and we have a new worldview based on the road we just traveled and the four legs of the table. In the beginning, it was all about the physical and the mental. By this point, we're solidly grounded because we're focused on the emotional and the spiritual too. Those are the five stages.

Gretta:

That's great, it's brilliant and it's so wonderful that it's a predictable journey.

Dr. Silber:

It really is. I mean, that's what's so beautiful. Like in the PBT Institute, everything is numbered according to stages. Like you go to stage three classes, you see stage three coaches, you do stage three, you know program until you get to stage four. And then you do all that until you get to stage five. And it's so beautiful because I mean you even check off things like did this, this, this and you know exactly what you would have had to do in order to move to the next stage. And then and then you have like we have this milestones and market, this amazing sheet that really shows us this. If you have not checked off all these things, you're just do this, this, this to get to the next stage.

Dr. Silber:

So so everybody knows they are fully and completely moving through the stages instead of just only addressing it from, let's say, one level. Like we have so many people coming in with therapy, trauma at well-meaning therapists, but they don't know the five stages. So if anything is going to glue you to stage three, it's endlessly unpacking your story right, without a strategic plan to move forward. So the most well-meaning, you feel heard, you feel understood, you feel validated, but like that's it. You know. So that's a stage three thing. So it has a role, but we just move everybody through the stages.

Gretta:

Right, that's great. When it comes to ghosting, oftentimes the person who vanished returns and it really feels impossible to trust them when they wanna reenter our lives. In my experiences I've had ghosts come back and I just can't believe that they're not going to suddenly disappear again. So in your work you discuss how you see trust as a brick wall. Can you share more about that?

Dr. Silber:

Yeah, I mean. And how could you trust that person? Right? You know, trust is like you said. I use that analogy a lot. I look at trust like a brick wall where every opportunity someone has to show that they're trustworthy, that's like one brick in that brick wall, and I don't know of any other way a brick wall can be built, you know, except brick by brick, by brick, you know. So it's like every opportunity someone has to show that they're trustworthy, that's a brick, another brick, another brick, another brick, and then all of a sudden they ghost you. Well then, that's the whole wall coming down, right? So if trust is that brick wall and they just shattered that brick wall, and then they come back, you're looking at this rubble of bricks Now. Now you don't have to do anything with it, you can walk away, totally fine. But if that person, if you want to feel safe and trust that person, then that person, the one who shattered the brick wall, has to be a really good bricklayer and put the bricks up the same way the first time, brick by brick, by brick.

Dr. Silber:

Here's the mistake, though. I see so many people who've been ghosted, right, who've been betrayed. The ghoster, the betrayer, doesn't really have much of an interest in doing the work to repair, and I don't even think trust can be repaired. It has to be rebuilt. They're really not interested in doing the work to rebuild. So the one who's been ghosted, the one who's been betrayed, is like fine, I'll do it. No, no, no, no. That's why you don't feel safe, that's why you don't trust. That's not your job to do. Your job, if you wanted to, would be to be willing to watch that brick wall be rebuilt, but for you to rebuild what someone else destroyed, no. Now you're rebuilding yourself, for sure, but when it comes to rebuilding an entirely new relationship that has so much to do with that other person.

Gretta:

Mm-hmm, yeah. And what are some of the signs that they are willing to rebuild, like what is a healthy rebuilding of the wall?

Dr. Silber:

Yeah, you know, we have. Actually it's called rebuild. That's our program for the betrayer, and certainly not everybody would be interested in a program like that. Like, the person who's just onto the next would never in a billion years be interested in that program. But this is like for the person who realizes I just shattered the heart and the trust of the very person that loves me the most and that I love the most, and I'm disgusted with who I am and I want to become someone I'm proud of. So it's so interesting because at first, when people were asking me to create that program, I was like I don't know, do I even want to be doing a program like this? And and and I you know I'm meeting with the betrayers and I'll tell you it is one of my most. I look forward to those calls. I meet with them. They meet with our coaches and everything, and have their own community and programs. But I meet with them every month and I love it because these are people who cause. I'm giving them the playbook this is what you say, this is what you do, this is what you never say, this is what you never do. And they are listening so intently and they're really taking it in.

Dr. Silber:

And one of the biggest things that I see with them and this is to answer your question is a willingness. A willingness Same thing with the betrayed too. They have to be willing to let go of their story and rebuild themselves. But for the betrayer, they have to be willing to let go of the habits, behaviors, everything that they've created. They have to be willing to change that. They have to be willing to look at who they've been. They have to be willing to really go into those dark places and say why did I do that? What was I thinking? And here's the thing I see this with a lot of betrayers, they betrayed they're like oh well, they've been through. They make excuses for the betrayal. Well, they've been. You know they were traumatized, they had a. You know they had this going on, that going on. Well, so has the betrayed. But why did they not make those choices too? I'm not saying it's not a valid reason for them to get support around that, but that does not justify betrayal ever.

Gretta:

Thank you for saying that. Yeah, I hear that too All the time.

Dr. Silber:

It's not an excuse, it's not, it's it's like you know I mean. So it's a when you're even considering that. That should be the clue. I need to to. I need to get some support around this, because to shatter the heart and trust of the person I love the most just because I have unhealed stuff going on no, no such tremendous damage that you know. And what is left in the wake for the betrayed to move through is otherworldly, you know it's it's.

Dr. Silber:

When I look at betrayal, I think it is one of the hardest of the human experiences. I mean, I can only imagine like death of a child being worse. You know, thankfully I've never been through that, but because think about it this was the person, or these were the people, who gave you a sense of safety and security. So, if this is the person who gave you that sense of safety and security and they're the ones taking it away, you know and this is after years or decades of complete and total, 100% trust I mean what a violation, what a violation.

Dr. Silber:

And the beauty, though, is when I see someone moving through stage four and stage five. I don't think I've seen stronger people, because they have intentionally and deliberately rebuilt themselves. It's so beautiful to watch because, when this happens, what they're doing is they're taking a look at every thought that comes in, every belief that they have, every choice they make, and they're assessing. That was the old me. Does this still work? No, I'm letting it go. If it looks and suits this new version of me, okay. If not. And that's the same opportunity for the betrayer, and that's why you know we have so many people going through a reclaim program for the betrayed, a rebuild program for the betrayer. They meet up again as two very different people. That's a 2.0 relationship.

Gretta:

That's really, really incredible. Wow, I love what you've built and created around this, and everybody send your ghosts who return over Debi .

Dr. Silber:

And many of them will be. They will ghost this program because they don't want to look at themselves right, they don't want to take a look and own what they've done, and so they don't heal. And here's the thing too, and the betrayed isn't going to like this, but I can only speak very straight. So if you're allowing this, you're enabling both of you and preventing both of you from healing, from doing the deep work that's needed to heal. And I'll tell you, there were three groups in the study who did not heal. One, this was the group. They had their story, they were sticking with it. They didn't heal. Number two this was the group, the second group, this was the group where they ran to the doctor, put them on a mood stabilizer, anti-anxiety medication. They were numbing may have made the day a bit easier to get through, not without a price. They didn't heal.

Dr. Silber:

The third group this was the group where the betrayed, let's say the ghoster, doesn't have any consequences, very little consequences. You know the like, the, the, the person who was hurt, just tried to turn the other way, look the other way, whatever. And I saw two things. And and it was usually out of financial fear, not wanting to break up a family, religious reasons, fear of change, whatever. But I saw two things a further deterioration of the relationship. And number two, that group had the most symptoms of post-betrayal syndrome. Your broken heart can't handle that, but we're so afraid of the death of the old.

Dr. Silber:

That's the only way you birth the new, whether that's you know, and just to close the loop on my story, so everybody knows um, whether you rebuild yourself and move along and that's what I did with my family they weren't changing, but I was so that was the end. Or, if the situation lends itself, if you're willing, if you want to, you rebuild something from the ground up new, with the person who hurt you, and that's what I did with my husband, so not long ago as to totally transform people. We married each other again new rings, new vows, new dress, and our four kids is a bridal party. And for those of you now are thinking, oh, she sold out or whatever, look I get. You can imagine what I hear. It was by far, hands down, the hardest thing I've ever done, and the only reason why I was able to do that was because I moved into stage five and he did on his own as well. So when we met up again, it was as two completely healed and changed people.

Gretta:

Yeah, and that's beautiful, and I just heard your story in your book Trust Again, so it's really powerful. Thank you for being so vulnerable and sharing that with everyone. It's just. It is really turning pain into purpose and helping everyone with what you've been through, and I know listeners here will appreciate it. And we should all go listen to your podcast too, because it's so incredible. Read your books, join the programs, everything.

Dr. Silber:

Thank you so much. It's. You know, when the five stages showed up and I'm a very private person I was like how do I keep that to myself? And so I put it in a program and it blew up. And then everyone wanted to work with me and I was like how do I keep that to myself? And so I put it in a program and it blew up, and then everyone wanted to work with me and I was like what do I do now? But I wanted to get the five stages into everybody's hands coaches, doctors, therapists. So I created our certification program and then I was like, wait a second.

Dr. Silber:

I did the research. I know what works. What would happen if we put everything that works under one roof, excluding everything else? And that works under one roof, excluding everything else, and that's the PBT Institute. And it was so interesting because, especially with writing trust, again, I set the whole family down. I'm like you know this is, I don't know what's going to happen here. I thought that the kids would be like, oh, come on, mom, they were. They were, you know, really behind it. My biggest supporter was my husband. Yeah, he's like you're going to help so many people and you're going to show them that people can change. And that's how I knew he was totally different. Because if he and like many betrayers, if they're like no, no, no, don't, don't let the kids know, don't let our friends know, don't do that, then that's about them. That's not a person who's ready and willing to really, really change them.

Gretta:

That's not a person who's ready and willing to really really change. Yeah, Do you have any final things that you'd like to share with?

Dr. Silber:

the listeners about ghosting or being ghosted. Yeah, and I say this for the betrayed too if it's not a ghosting thing, but if it is, it's sort of the same thing and it's a mantra, and if you have to repeat this a million times, it's worth it, even though it happened to you. It's not about you. It's not about you. This is someone else's weakness, this is someone else's unhealed whatever. This is someone else's issue. It's a great opportunity for us to always look and say what do I want for next time? What am I maybe not realizing? Am I not realizing how lovable, worthy, deserving I am? We want to take a look to see what we can learn from the experience. But what you don't want to do is just assume that it's about you, because it's not.

Gretta:

I agree a hundred percent. Thank you for those wise words. How can people connect with you?

Dr. Silber:

Yeah, thank you. Everything is at the PBT, as in post-betrayal transformation, the PBT institutecom.

Gretta:

Perfect, and I'm just so impressed with what you've accomplished and thank you so much for taking the time to be here.

Dr. Silber:

Thanks so much.

Gretta:

And listeners. I invite you to become a part of the Coping with Ghosting community. Follow Coping with Ghosting on social media. Join the free and private Facebook support group and share this podcast with anyone you know who's been ghosted or betrayed. I'd also really appreciate it if you could please leave a rating and review for this show. Your feedback helps spread a message of hope. And finally, be sure to remember when you're ghosted. You have more time to connect with yourself and with people who have stellar communication skills. You deserve the best. And one last thing I enjoyed speaking with Dr Debi so much that I am well on my way to getting certified as a post betrayal transformation coach. I'm already a coach for people who've been ghosted, but I loved her steps and methodology and would love to incorporate it into my pre-existing work. So stay tuned, as I will be giving you updates on new programs and memberships and things that I'm going to do once I finish the certification.