Coping With Ghosting

Overcoming Self-Harm, with Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT

• Gretta

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If you're self-harming after being ghosted, you're not alone, and there are resources to help you through this journey. Jocelyn Fitzgerald, art therapist and EMDR consultant, joins Gretta to provide gentle guidance on acknowledging self-harming behaviors and finding healthier solutions. Jocelyn's career has spanned across various settings, from tackling self-harm in teens to helping refugees overcome trauma using EMDR therapy. She is also a published author and co-edited a groundbreaking textbook on creative arts therapies. Additionally, she runs a successful private practice and offers innovative tools through her Etsy shop to aid individuals in exploring their emotions and cultivating well-being.
In this episode, Jocelyn shares:
- Practices and activities that can replace harmful behaviors
- Practical tools to foster self-awareness and self-compassion
- How trauma-focused therapies like EMDR and brain spotting can help you
Whether you're grappling with self-harm or supporting someone who is, this conversation offers multiple pathways to recovery.

Visit Jocelyn's Website

Connect With Gretta:
Take Your Power Back Workshop
Free and Private Facebook Support Group |  Instagram | copingwithghosting.com

Resources:
Jocelyn's Free Guide to Quieting the Emotional Storm
Body Image, Eating Disorders, and Ghosting with Dr. Michele Jensen
International Suicide Hotlines

BetterHelp:
Go to https://betterhelp.com/copingwithghosting for 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp and get matched with a therapist who will listen and help #sponsored

Music: "Ghosted" by Gustavo Zaiah
Disclaimer: This information is designed to mentor and guide you to cope with Ghosting by cultivating a positive mindset and implementing self-care practices. It is for educational purposes only; it solely provides self-help tools for your use. Coping With Ghosting is not providing health care or psychological therapy services and is not diagnosing or treating any physical or mental ailment of the mind or body. The content is not a substitute for therapy or any advice given by a licensed psychologist or other licensed or other registered professionals. 

Ghosted? We've got you covered. Download Coping With Ghosting 101. This workshop's designed to help you better understand why ghosting happens, ways to feel better now, and actionable steps to take your power back. Your purchase will help support this podcast, so it’s a win-win!

Note to All Listeners: Ghosting is defined as: The practice of ending a personal relationship with someone by suddenly and without explanation withdrawing from all communication (Oxford Languages).
When you leave an abusive situation without saying "goodbye," it's not ghosting, it's "self-protection." When you quietly exit a relationship after a boundary has been violated, it's not ghosting, it's "self-respect."

Gretta:

Because you ghosted me. I can't believe. You're just a memory.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Why did you?

Gretta:

Listener discretion is advised. Before diving into today's topic, I want to offer a quick disclaimer. The show discusses sensitive topics that may evoke strong emotional responses. It's unsuitable for children and I encourage you to prioritize your mental health and emotional well-being while listening. If, at any point, you feel uncomfortable or need to turn this off, please do so. Remember it's okay to take breaks and seek support. I'll pause now for about 15 seconds so you have a chance to turn this off if you need to.

Gretta:

Welcome to Coping with Ghosting, the podcast that provides hope, healing and understanding for anyone who has been ghosted. I'm your host, Gretta, and I'm here with Jocelyn Fitzgerald, art therapist and EMDR consultant based in Vancouver, Washington. We're going to be discussing self-harm and Jocelyn is passionate about empowering individuals to live authentically, connectedly and creatively. Combining board certified art therapy with traditional talk therapy and EMDR, she helps individuals struggling with depression, anxiety and self-harming behaviors find solution and lasting healing Beyond Therapy. Jocelyn has co-authored a best-selling children's book promoting mindfulness, co-edited a textbook on EMDR and creative art therapies, and offers a range of colorful therapy tools, which I love. They're on her website. You could go check them out. Thank you so much for joining me today, Jocelyn.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here and talk about this topic so important to be talking about.

Gretta:

Yeah, it's a heavy one, it's a hard one. Yeah, it's a heavy one, it's a hard one. So I'm really glad we connected and that we're doing this. It's so important. And I would just like to begin with some examples of self-harm, like what is self-harm is not a form, it's not a suicide attempt.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

It's a form of people are wanting to feel better. It's a maladaptive coping skill that needs to be modified and changed. But it can range it's got a spectrum, you know, from things as little as like people digging their nails into their hands really hard. I've worked with kids that have used erasers to burn themselves to using sharp objects to cut, oftentimes cutting in places that are hidden, like on the thighs or arms, and yeah, it can go all across the range from really mild injuries to more severe injuries and, like I said, it's not an attempt to kill them, to create suicide, but it can be dangerous and that there can be infections and then there can be accidents where people do cut too far and then it does. It can lead to a suicide or to an accidental death yeah.

Gretta:

I have an episode on one form of self-harm it's called Body Image, eating Disorders and Ghosting with Dr Michelle Jensen and I'll put a link to that in my show notes for anybody who's struggling, maybe, with an eating disorder. Yeah, like listeners who are self-harming may feel like they're alone, but they're not. Can you please tell us why somebody may choose self-harm after being ghosted?

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

A lot of. Usually it starts younger adolescence and goes into 20s and sometimes even 30s and 40s, and it is with male, female, non-binary, across the board, we see it. So why it would happen with ghosting. I think a big part of being ghosted is that you lose control of a situation. You are no longer able to have that relationship and with self-harming behavior, you have full control of what's happening to your body. You get to play out on your body. You get to be the perpetrator and the victim and have your skin be the ground that it happens on. So it gives you a sense of control and in that act, you know it also can act as a distraction from those thoughts, especially ruminating thoughts, that can take you off of those ruminations and make you feel the physical sensation in your body. It can create endorphins which can help people to feel better. So, yeah, there's a lot of reasons why they might. They might self-harm after being ghosted or feeling abandoned and rejected by somebody they care about.

Gretta:

Yeah, how can somebody who's self-harming cultivate compassion for themselves and stop beating themselves up for what they're doing? Like, for example, I used to bite my nails and I felt really ashamed of that and I know now that nail biting is a form of self but just feeling like completely embarrassed about it was unhelpful.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Yeah. So I think having that first level of self-awareness, like oh, this is happening again, I'm having this urge, this desire, and then recognizing the consequences of it, Like this isn't actually helping me to get better. This is like kind of an addiction, you know, that feels like it's filling a hole or a void, but it's not actually helping us to grow and to heal. So, like feeling the urge and not giving into that urge can be really important. Yeah, so recognizing it, being mindful, taking some deep breaths or recognizing there's alternatives to self-harming and in the beginning phases with clients I would help to create scaffolding so that they would know there are alternatives.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Sometimes in the beginning we will say like you can do things, like you can draw with a red marker on your skin If you want to see that you can hold a piece of ice to feel the cold sensation, which, which doesn't feel good, but it also, um, takes you out of those ruminating thoughts and has you focusing on your hand or wherever you're holding that ice. Um, sometimes people will put a rubber band and snap it to feel something. Um, I would like I always like to have my clients move away from those things that are hurting them and to move into things that are more helpful and not harming physically to them, like art therapy, I love using.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

EMDR with this population. I wrote my whole thesis in grad school on using stained glass windows, creating stained glass windows instead of self-harming. So they were taking glass and they were cutting the glass and then taking these broken pieces and putting them back together to create this metaphor of something whole and beautiful and new. And all the kids I worked with for my thesis all stopped self-harming. They all really turned to the arts and loved this experience and using. You know all the five senses you're smelling it, you're feeling it, you're hearing the sounds.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

So anything we can do, I feel like oftentimes, like with teens, we're like you just need to stop doing that. It's not okay, it's, you're going to have scars. This isn't safe. But they're like well, what am I supposed to do? Like tell me what to do instead. And that's where having somebody that you trust, that you can talk to a friend or therapist if you can find a therapist, that's great. If not just turning to art or the arts in general, for some kids, like having music or playing music, can feel really good. I mean, I feel like art therapy I really use in a broad way. It can be like baking a cake or knitting or, you know, drumming. It can be all sorts of things that just kind of there's also the element of distraction, so kind of distracting when the urge is strongest and noticing there's different things you can do, and sometimes just having a list of things.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Okay, these are the top five things that I like to do, and having that written down or having images because, when we get in that amygdala of that fight or flight response, sometimes it shuts off our frontal cortex and we have a hard time thinking of ideas like oh, I actually can call my friend, I have on speed dial, or I can paint a beautiful mandala, or I can color in my coloring book, or I can listen to my favorite music. Um, having that listed for you when you're feeling overwhelmed or stressed or after being ghosted can be really supportive.

Gretta:

This episode is sponsored by betterHelp. Listen, if there's anyone who knows just how painful it is to be ghosted, it's me. I've been through the ringer with all things ghosting and I used to hold the belief that time itself would heal all my wounds. But, as it turns out, time itself didn't magically improve my state of mind. I had to do deep inner work to feel better after being ghosted, and I did it in therapy, and that's why I'm excited to tell you about today's sponsor, betterhelp.

Gretta:

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Gretta:

Wow, you just said so many brilliant things. Thank you for all of those and some of the things. I just took some notes down like okay, the, the rubber band. So you're talking about? Like putting a rubber band on your wrist and kind of snapping it every time you feel the urge to do something that's harmful to yourself. So this is an alternative substitution.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Right, not one that I want for very long, but it's kind of like that in between, like we're still learning the scaffolding, we're still building that support. That can be something you do in the interim of building others tools and techniques. Yeah.

Gretta:

Okay, and then getting some ice and holding it. How long should we hold the ice for?

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Yeah, so that would just depend. You know, sometimes you can just hold it for a few seconds and then you can let it go. Some people will hold it until it melts, and then it just melts. Doesn't really cause any damage to your skin, but it doesn't feel good like if you hold it to. It completely melts. It is uncomfortable okay.

Gretta:

And then, um, so having a list, so then writing the list and just having everything that kind of brings you joy or alternative behaviors to substitute, okay. But I love this because this is like completely actionable and doable and honestly, like, whether you self-harm or not, having a list of things to do like that kind of lift you up, like calling the friend and listening to great music, like all of that stuff is just going to bring you more joy. So I love, I love all of these things. And then you also mentioned EMDR. Can you talk a little bit more about that? What does EMDR mean? How can listeners experience it?

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Yeah. So EMDR is this amazing technique. It stands for eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing, which is a mouthful, but basically what it is is a trauma technique. It's the number one trauma technique right now, I think in the world is the most researched um, right there with CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. But basically what it is is a trauma technique in that you bring up the trauma.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

So, however, maybe getting ghosted was your target that you're going to work on, and you ask questions around it. What's your, what's your negative belief about yourself? I'm not good enough, or I'm always going to be alone, or maybe I deserved this. And then you bring up what are the feelings? I'm ashamed, I feel rejected, I'm angry and sad. And then what do you feel in your body? Oh, my stomach hurts Like my throat feels tight when I think about it. You bring it. It's kind of like you're ringing the bell again of the trauma in a safe way.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

And then you do these bilateral eye movements at a pretty rapid pace. You can also do bilateral tapping. I have these little things that vibrate back and forth, the little paddles that people can hold in their hands. Or you can do your own butterfly hug, tapping back and forth on your chest and then you check in after about a minute. You check in with the client.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

What do you notice now? Oh, you know, whatever comes up for them is fine. Sometimes it's like nothing's changed, or sometimes it's like I feel a little bit worse and you keep going. And then usually what happens is it brings that intensity level down and you start to feel better. And you check in with this, what we call the subjective units of distress zero to 10, how intense is it? And you kind of can watch that body affect, the emotions, the suds, so it all comes down and then you, yeah, you do a few other things and then it really can help to desensitize and to reprocess that trauma that's gotten stuck in the brain. You know we talked a little bit about that rumination. That can happen with ghosting or thoughts can get stuck.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

I should have done something different, I should have said something different. Emdr can help you get off of that kind of like neural pathway where you're just stuck on that train of ruminating on those negative thoughts.

Gretta:

Yeah, I love EMDR. It's like magic. Emdr equals magic to me.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

It's amazing. Yeah, I love it too. The thought is that a little bit. One of the theories is that you know, when we're in that REM sleep, our eyes are moving back and forth rapidly and our brain is processing through the trauma.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

So it's kind of recreating that experience again. Also, if I can just share one other thing, there's a technique called brain spotting, which is an offshoot of EMDR, which is amazing too for trauma, and I'm learning about this technique around addiction, and you have two spots where you actually hold your eye position. One is the spot where you have the urge to do whatever the behavior is that you want to change, and the other spot is the consequence, like I kind of talked about at the beginning. When you notice those two, what's the urge? Where's the urge coming up for you, and then what's the consequence?

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

so that's another technique that I think. So I think a lot of people like can talk about their ghosting experience and can be like I know it's over and I know I didn't do anything wrong and I know whatever. I know all these things rationally but I still feel so bad inside and I'm still getting triggered when I go here or when I think about this or when I hear this song. So it's like EMDR brain spotting. They go deep into the brain and they help to reprocess that trauma, where talk therapy is awesome and great for looking at patterns and changing things, but sometimes we need to go deeper into the brain to recreate that new pathway, and so EMDR brain spotting are two amazing techniques to help with that.

Gretta:

That's amazing. Yeah, I'm so grateful that you brought that up. Yeah, such a cool one. Yeah, okay, and get help, like from another person, so like, and I know you gave a whole list of alternatives, like substitutions. But if somebody is like not really ready to give this behavior up and start substituting, is there anything you would want to say to them if they're not going to go to therapy or anything?

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Oh, I would just want to say, like there are alternative ways to feel your feelings, I would say that you're going to get through it, you're going to feel better, that time really does help heal, and that you know self growth like this is an opportunity for you to grow and learn about yourself, and I think you can. I mean, if you don't want to do therapy, that's fine. I think journaling can be so powerful, creating art around what you're feeling. Yeah, talking to friends or somebody that you value, maybe that's older, that's been through a similar experience, because I feel like we've all had the experience of being ghosted and recognizing that it does get better, it does feel better over time.

Gretta:

Yeah, Totally Brighter days are ahead. It really, really does Like there is a light at the end of this tunnel. I know, I've been there.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Yeah, me too.

Gretta:

Well, what if somebody is listening and they're not self-harming, but they know somebody who is or maybe somebody close to them is hurting themselves? How can one help another person who's doing this?

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Yeah, such a good question. I mean I would say not being afraid to talk about it. I would say I care about you and I want you to know I'm noticing you and I'm feeling really worried because I do care about you and I want you to get better and also you know if it's a kid or a teenager getting help, like by a trusted school counselor or a trusted teacher.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

I don't want kids to feel like they have to hold the secret if it's a dangerous secret like this and getting that extra help or consulting with somebody that they trust to get the help they need for their friend or loved one.

Gretta:

Yeah, I think that's right. And also there's one thing I just want to point out is you're not just like you're not responsible for somebody else's behavior, the fact that they ghosted you, you're not responsible for this person who's harming themselves, so like if they continue, and you've checked in with them like that's not your fault, totally.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Yep, that's the thing too. You have to let go of that, knowing that you can't control what anyone else does. Yeah, yeah.

Gretta:

Are there other ways that creating art can help with self-harm?

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Well, I, yes, I think anytime you can use like bilateral movements, it's going to be really helpful. So I like would say, getting out to colored crayons or pastels or pencils and just doing some bilateral scribbles can feel really good. I will take since we're recording this I could show you. This is one of my art pieces. It's just a scribble and basically you just color in different sections and that can feel so soothing. I think anything that you can do to soothe yourself with art is really great.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

I personally love watercolors and there's something for me very relaxing about like laying down water and then putting color on top and you can watch it expand. For me that feels super relaxing I think for a lot of my clients too. And then even like using clay, again, where you're using that bilateral touch, you're using both hands to create a sculpture. And then again, too, I love clay because it activates the senses. You know, you're smelling it, you're feeling the coolness of the touch. Yeah, like I mean, I know stained glass isn't accessible to everyone, but trying something new can feel really good and exciting in a way that doesn't always happen with just art. That, like if we've always been coloring, coloring, trying something that you've never done before.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Creates that dopamine and makes you kind of come alive in a different way that can be really helpful to healing. So with these kids that were doing stained glass, none of them had ever melted metal before. Like there's a part of it where you're soldering metal and they were so excited about that. So finding an art that feels new and different and you know what it doesn't even have to cost money. Like you can go outside and collect a bunch of rocks and create like a beautiful mandala out of rocks, and a mandala just the word literally means a sacred circle. So go find leaves and rocks and twigs and make a beautiful sculpture outside on the lawn or in the dirt. You could even take a stick and create art within the dirt. So I don't think it necessarily has to cost money to be creative and to kind of find something alternative to do with the arts.

Gretta:

That's such great advice. I love that. That's such great advice. I love that. So can you explain a little bit about why our listeners this is kind of this is a little different kind of question here, but I just want the listeners to know how incredible they are, that they're wonderful and that they're worthy and important, no matter what they've done or accomplished, or if they're with their ghost or without their ghost. Can you just share a little bit about why everyone is so worthy?

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Oh yeah, and I also like to add to that, like you are worthy, even if you have scars, even if you've been self-harming for years, you are still worthy of love and support.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Yeah, I mean, I just think we human beings are so incredible and your listeners are so amazing and everyone is unique, and that's kind of what I love about the arts is that I will go to a classroom and I just recently went to a classroom and all the kids created art around this meditation and they were all so different and unique and I was like this is why we need everyone here.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

This is why we need all these perspectives and ideas, because of the uniqueness and I think the arts can really highlight that, in that nobody is going to draw the same scribble drawing. They're all going to look different and finding ways to celebrate parts in you that are unique and special whether it's art or not, but finding those things that light you up and recognizing your special uniqueness, I think is incredibly important in the healing journey and after being ghosted and if you have turned to self-harm, recognizing, like we were saying earlier, that there are brighter days ahead and things are going to get better, yeah, and that there's so much goodness in the world. If you focus on that, you'll definitely start to feel better.

Gretta:

Yeah, I agree, being yourself is one of the greatest gifts you can give to the world. We all are worthy, we're all whole, we're all complete. We're all whole, we're all complete, we're all important. And like, I just want to say that I have harmed myself before and it's hard for me to talk about, but I have not always had the prettiest, most smoothest, easiest life right, I've done things that I'm not proud of. This easiest life right, I've done things that I'm not proud of, and I still have a lot of compassion for myself and I still nurture, kind of, my inner child. It's interesting, Jocelyn, you were talking about children, you're talking about teens, young adults, and we have listeners of all ages, and I just think it's so important that everybody honor the child within themselves.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

I'm so glad you said that. Actually, I really want to say something to that because that's so important. And what you're saying is, I think a lot of times when we're younger and something bad happens or we get ghosted, that inner critic can get so loud and be so mean to us and I think that cultivating that compassionate witness is so important in all of this, like being kind to ourselves, like how we would talk to our child self, is incredibly important. Like if we could even see an image of ourself as a little kid, we would never want to hurt that part of us. We could even see an image of ourself as a little kid. We would never want to hurt that part of us. Yeah, I love, I love that you shared that. And yeah, life is hard and it's like we need a village.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

We need people to support each other and to, and we need to be kind to ourselves too, and all of this yeah.

Gretta:

I mean, even like the past two weeks I've been dealing with being scammed and I've kind of been in survival mode, but the whole time I know like that, okay, I'm going to still be nice to myself, I'm going to still try to give myself breaks in between changing all my passwords and my bank account and everything. Like I am going to honor my body because that's where I am now. I'm not going to beat myself up for this, even though it was partially my fault for giving information to a scammer, but I'm going to learn from this and so that's kind of just the self-care that I'm at right now.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

I love that. Yeah, yeah, because we've all love that. Yeah, yeah, cause we've all made mistakes, right, yeah? We always be careful of scammers outside of our bodies and inside of our bodies, like those lies that we tell ourselves, and then the people outside of us that can't hurt us. Yeah, to be so careful and mindful, yeah.

Gretta:

Yeah. Do you have any experiences about being ghosted that you'd like to share?

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Yeah, I definitely have had experiences. I I one of my best friends from high school, after I've left for college, like just completely stopped responding to me and it was horrible and I remember feeling really abandoned and like really depressed for a while, cause it was like my one really good friend that I thought was going to be there till the end and she was not. So, yeah, super sad and super hard.

Gretta:

I'm so sorry you went through that.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Thank you.

Gretta:

Yeah Well, is there anything else you'd like to share about being ghosted or the act of ghosting, or self-harm?

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Well, I think you brought up something that I did want to just feed off of, which is that, um, recognizing like within your experience recently, you're like, okay, a week from now I'm going to feel different about this. I think that, too, for people that have experienced self-harming, being ghosted, like recognizing. You might not feel incredibly great five minutes from self-harming experience or from the bad experience of being ghosted, but five weeks you might feel really different. Five months you're probably going to feel really, really different and five years you might not even remember. It might be a distant, faded memory. So kind of giving yourself that perspective, like we talked about so much today, that perspective that time does make things feel better and that you're important and you need to be here and there's a reason you're here.

Gretta:

Yeah, yeah, thank you, and I'd like to share something as well. I know a lot of us turn to social media for solutions after being ghosted. Unfortunately, there's a lot of heartbreak healing recovery content out there that is glorifying self-harm. So, listeners, just please be mindful of what you're consuming online. So, Jocelyn, how can listeners connect with you?

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Yeah, on social media I'm at Jocelyn underscore art, underscore therapy, and then just my full name, Jocelyn Fitzgerald. com, is my website, and there's a ton of information on there. Yeah, and I want to share with you, like a thing, a documented piece of art that I created around calming the storm, which is just about like it has those some of the things that we talked about today of like how to like recognize what you're feeling, noticing what's in your body, reminding yourself how you're going to feel five weeks from now, and then maybe doing some deep breathing or doing an art exercise. Like there's a map, there's a plan for you, if you need it in this document. So, yeah, I would love to share that.

Gretta:

Perfect, and I'll put that in a link on the show notes. Thank you for being here. I'm really grateful for your words of wisdom.

Jocelyn Fitzgerald, LMFT:

Thank you for doing this show. It's amazing what you're doing.

Gretta:

Thank you and listeners. I invite you to follow Coping with Ghosting on social media. You can also join my free and private Facebook support group and please leave a rating for the show because your feedback will help people find it. And finally, remember when you're ghosted, you have more time to connect with yourself and people who have stellar communication skills. You deserve the best. Remember when you're ghosted you have more time to connect with yourself and people who have stellar communication skills. You deserve the best.