Coping With Ghosting

Gen Z & Millennial Ghosting Behavior: A Look at Ghosting, Loneliness, Dating, and Online Relationships

• Gretta

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In this episode, host Gretta is joined by Dr. Tirrell DeGannes, Psy.D., to explore ghosting, online relationships, loneliness, dating, and beyond. Dr. DeGannes shares highlights from Thriving Center of Psychology's "Report: Top 6 Reasons Gen Z and Millennials Ghost" and unpacks many psychological factors driving this behavior in today's digital age.
Dr. DeGannes provides valuable insights on:
- Why Gen Z and Millenials ghost 
- "Offended" ghosts and a deeper look into the definition of ghosting
- Romantic, friendship, business, and online relationship ghosting 
- Reciprocal ghosting, where both parties silently withdraw
- Loneliness and the deeper issues that fuel ghosting 
Whether navigating online dating or friendships or trying to understand the dynamics of modern relationships, this show examines the statistics and provides an overview of the challenges and trends shaping people's behavior. 

Connect With Gretta:
Coping With Ghosting 101
Free and Private Facebook Support Group |  Instagram | copingwithghosting.com

Connect with Dr. Tirrell De Gannes:
Thriving Center of Psychology

BetterHelp:
Go to https://betterhelp.com/copingwithghosting for 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp and get matched with a therapist who will listen and help #sponsored

Music: "Ghosted" by Gustavo Zaiah

Disclaimer: This information is designed to mentor and guide you to cope with Ghosting by cultivating a positive mindset and implementing self-care practices. It is for educational purposes only; it solely provides self-help tools for your use. Coping With Ghosting is not providing health care or psychological therapy services and is not diagnosing or treating any physical or mental ailment of the mind or body. The content is not a substitute for therapy or any advice given by a licensed psychologist or other licensed or other registered professionals. 

Ghosted? We've got you covered. Download Coping With Ghosting 101. This workshop's designed to help you better understand why ghosting happens, ways to feel better now, and actionable steps to take your power back. Your purchase will help support this podcast, so it’s a win-win!

Note to All Listeners: Ghosting is defined as: The practice of ending a personal relationship with someone by suddenly and without explanation withdrawing from all communication (Oxford Languages).
When you leave an abusive situation without saying "goodbye," it's not ghosting, it's "self-protection." When you quietly exit a relationship after a boundary has been violated, it's not ghosting, it's "self-respect."

Gretta :

Welcome to Coping with Ghosting, the podcast that provides hope, healing and understanding for anyone who's been ghosted. I'm your host Gretta, And today's guest is Dr. Tirrell De Gannes. He's a licensed clinical psychologist in New York and works as the regional clinical coordinator for Thriving Center of Psychology. With extensive experience across the United States, he's worked with individuals at various stages of life, including those navigating the complexities of ghosting. Dr. De Gannes is dedicated to breaking down barriers and stigma that often exists between the general public and therapists. Welcome to the show.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Gretta :

It's my pleasure. I'm so happy you're here and I discovered you through the Thriving Center of Psychology because it has an outstanding report on the top six reasons Gen Z and Millennials Ghost. I would love to hear all about this report. If you could please share why it was made, the methodology that you use to discover this data and the key discoveries, that would be great. I bet everyone would be really fascinated to hear about this.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

Absolutely. I'd be happy to share that. So, first off, thriving Center of Psychology does a lot of research. We want to make sure that we're getting really interesting things about the current zeitgeist of the world, things that are affecting people today and as new phenomenons develop over time. We want to make sure that we're talking to what people are actually experiencing and not giving the same old information that people have read over and over again. To that end, we do a lot of surveys and that's how we collect our data and the people that are willing to actually fill out the surveys we're always appreciative of, and we we collect that data, we run it through our statistics and then we just kind of present it in a hopefully a very easy read for those that are willing to look at it, and we get a lot of great information.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

So we did a lot of research when it comes to ghosting specifically, and we found that a lot of people tend to ghost, more so than they actually thought they would as a starter. For one, there's a lot of people that ghost at different points in relationships, for instance, and what was actually surprising to me is the amount of people that ghost prior to even the first date and it's something that I would think, from just normal conversations and speak with friends and peers, that it would happen, more so after the fact, but you do have a decent percentage that goes early on I think about 34%. There's also people that ghost from acquaintances. There are people that ghost from their friendships, so it's not something that's exclusive to the dating scene, though it does happen quite a bit. There's a lot of people that end up ghosting when it comes to not wanting to, not wanting to continue a conversation or feeling uncomfortable. There's people that ghost because they feel like the connection just wasn't strong enough or they were personally offended. There's a number of reasons that we've determined through our survey.

Gretta :

That's so fascinating and I really like that. Your survey incorporated a lot of different areas of and situations where people can be ghosted and I'm definitely going to put a link to that in the show notes and it just from what I read. It seems like most people are are ghosting.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

Yeah, and it's surprising, considering how people feel when they're ghosted, to think that they're also doing that to others. And yet it's more common than you would actually think. And something that was also really I would I wouldn't say shocking, but just kind of it brought more attention than I thought it would is that about 86 of the people that were surveyed uh, felt like there was a relief from ghosting, which kind of makes sense, but then 69 of those people also felt guilty. So it doesn't quite make sense for you to understand what it feels like to be ghosted and then have such a high percentage also willing to do it themselves, and it doesn't quite gel well in terms of like the golden rule that we've all learned at some point in our lives.

Gretta :

Right, and the study brought up reciprocal ghosting, so do we have any idea why people do this?

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

So reciprocal ghosting is the concept of each person in a relationship, whether it's romantic or not, determining that being able to separate from one another is the better option, but never actually having that discussion. That feeling of being uncomfortable with a person, not really feeling the connection is quite there. Struggling with your own mental health concerns other things that we identified in the study, when those combine the idea that we both know this but neither of us is willing to stop and have a conversation about it. That's the idea of the reciprocal ghosting, but I think it doesn't happen nearly as often as people think it's reciprocal, or the reciprocity isn't as present as people think it is yeah, it's a little bit confusing because let's say, I go silent and you go silent, but I'm just like waiting for you and then I just assume you've ghosted me.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

So that can cause a lot of confusion, because when people aren't communicating, there's no real understanding of if it is truly reciprocal assume it's reciprocal, because they feel like they don't want to speak to that other person and they also feel that the other person doesn't want to speak to them.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

But without confirmation through an actual conversation, there's really no way to tell that's going on, unless you have some level of confirmation at any point in time it's really frustrating it is it and that's what the issues with assumptions that it leads to frustrating behaviors that, unfortunately, we perpetuate, even when we feel like it's not great to be on the other side of.

Gretta :

Yeah, and so reciprocal ghosting is exactly why I think it's important for listeners to use their voice if they believe that they're being ghosted, to check in, at least try to attempt to talk to the other person, just because if you continuously have no replies, then you know. And I'm not saying blow up somebody's phone I don't think that's a good look on anyone but just check in, say hey, are you okay? And if they don't respond within like a week or something like that, like a reasonable time period which I know is different for everyone then to go ahead and say like you know, I take your silence as a sign that this is no longer, you know, working for me. I need consistent communication in my relationship or something like that, and I offer a free guide on what to say to ghosts in many different contexts on my website, copingwithghostingcom, so anyone can go check that out. But I do think speaking up for yourself and instead of just assuming that you're ghosted is really important.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

I completely agree with you. I would also say, to get to that point that requires level of maturity that a lot of people don't bring to the table, regardless of the relationship, and it's really unfortunate, because that maturity is very much appreciated. And even if you're the person being ghosted or the person doing the ghosting, showing maturity and taking accountability is very important, and not a lot of people give themselves enough credit to be able to even do those things, and I wish more people were able to listen to podcasts like these and able to go to your website to get the right words and know that it's OK to do that and not to apply what I consider to be kind of silly rules for dating. I can't double text them or I should wait at least three days that it doesn't make sense to apply that if you just want to be in contact with someone.

Gretta :

I agree, yeah, was there anything that really surprised you about the report that the center did?

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

I mean, if I go over all the numbers probably say everything in there. To be quite honest, For instance, I also have preconceived notions, like anyone else, about who does more ghosting than others, and seeing the percentages between men and women be as close as they were, it was kind of surprising for me. But I believe women were at 54% and men were about 48% and being ghosted even my friends and I wouldn't imagine that one they both be that high but two for them to be that close either. So noticing the trend happening it's more of a reflection of the time than it is certain biases that we all have. I think that also stood out to me quite a bit and you know I never thought of it prior to the study being done as something that also happened with acquaintances. I didn't think it would be considered ghosting honestly. But when you really think about what ghosting is and just cutting off connection without that confirmation, it does make sense to show up in multiple areas of life.

Gretta :

Yeah, I guess. I'm wondering what your thoughts and insights are about that gender divide within ghosting.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

So, based off the conversations that I've had and the research and other components from my own experience, I think the reason that we're seeing it this way is because people don't want to feel hurt is because people don't want to feel hurt and when it comes to the expectations of dating and who's going to be the provider, who's going to be the one that asks each other out, who's comfortable with what, you're starting to see these hurt feelings when things don't go their way, and that leads to reactions that aren't always suitable for a healthy connection, for healthy confrontation. People often think it's safer for themselves and sometimes they think it's safer for the other person not to get that confirmation, and I often disagree with that. But you can't force someone to be more mature than they really are yeah, absolutely, you can't like.

Gretta :

I think chasing after a ghost is pointless, because they've already kind of showed you how they communicate, which is via silence.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

It's the lowest form of communication absolutely, and I think it is also reflective of the person that's being ghosted on how they handle those situations, because it can be really taxing to put yourself in those opportunities to be ghosted because you're trying to make a connection and it often happens in romantic relationships that you want to meet someone. So you meet them on the internet or some app or some other means, but it's not always guaranteed that person's going to show up. It's not always guaranteed the person going to continue speaking with you. They can unmatch you.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

There's just so many ways to be ghosted and for that person to try and try again, I think is a great show of resilience and it can be really difficult to put yourself in that position. I know a lot of people end up giving up on themselves or giving up on the process because they don't see a way out. But when you finally do run into that person who is respectful, is going to give you the time of day, is going to talk about the concerns that they're seeing and really engages with you, it will feel worth it. But you just can't give you a timeline for when that's going to happen.

Gretta :

Right. Never give up on love.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

No.

Gretta :

One other thing I'd like to bring up is that there's so many different definitions of the word ghosting and the study did say that 39% of people ghost because they're offended by something. And if I were offended by something like, let's say, somebody called me a name, a vicious name, I I wouldn't respond, I would just leave the relationship out of self-respect and I would define that as self-respect, so I wouldn't exactly call that ghosting. So I just wanted to ask I think this study is kind of operating underneath a different definition of the word that I'm using in my podcast, because in my podcast, leaving a relationship because of self-respect, if a boundary was violated or if somebody was like harassing you or abusing you, like that's all, that's completely different than just ghosting and I'm just curious to hear your thoughts on that.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

So I can certainly validate the idea that if you feel like you're being harmed, whether it be emotionally, psychologically, physically, of course, or any other way, it's in your best interest to separate from that person that environment, that situation.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

And I think, just for the purposes of doing a study, we have to have some level of kind of clarity in terms of the definition. But it doesn't take away the fact that having a disconnect from someone without confirming it can be viewed as ghosting, and I think this is where it gets into more like a nuanced perception. That person may not consciously know that they said something that really hurt you and therefore you're ghosting them for no reason. So the the perception is one thing, but then the reality is another, and I think that's a difference between intent and impact. So maybe they intended to be funny, or just have a specific memory they're creating, or this is just how they speak, or whatever their version of that is. But ultimately the impact was something that pushed you away and you are not wrong for not wanting to continue that connection. But that person may still see you as being in the wrong because you ghosted them.

Gretta :

I really appreciate those words of wisdom, thank you.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

Absolutely.

Gretta :

And just to add to that, I would say that if somebody offended me but I didn't feel like they had any idea, like they were cracking a joke, but I was. I wasn't cool with that joke because I found it deeply, wildly offensive, or something like that I would use my adult communication skills and I would say hey, you know, I don't see this relationship moving in the direction I need it to move in. Or I would maybe call them out, depending on what they're saying. If I feel safe to call them out on it, like, hey, that's not cool, that kind of thing, I would try my best to end that relationship with respect.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

And I think a lot of people have that in mind. But then there are also the realities of dating that we also have to consider. Some people were taken outside of their comfort zone physically, so they may not want to challenge it in that moment. Some people are shocked by what was said because you'd never know who's going to say what during the day, and I think people naturally want to be able to challenge those things, but they may not have the ability in the moment, and that can be frightening also. So I definitely agree that's the best way to handle it when possible, but I also know that some people aren't in the position to do that and there's nothing wrong with that either. But it's still important for you to know what contributed to you feeling like this disconnect occurred.

Gretta :

Oh my gosh. Yes, absolutely, I completely agree with that. I've been in situations where I just there. There are no words. I don't even know what to say anymore Like what, I can't process what just happened, I need to come back to this later. And then I always remember, I always I always realize what to say later on and I have like, okay, I could have said that, but you're right, it's so hard to speak up in the moment.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

Yeah, and we've all been there. There are times where you really want to say something and if I say it now, it's only going to be an argument, or I'm, I'm not going to feel safe anymore, I'm just going to be yelling, or it's going to be a back and forth, and you don't want to be in that environment. So you hold your tongue. But there are times where you are completely in the right to even start an argument, and by all means. But I totally understand that it doesn't always work out for everyone that way.

Gretta :

Right, so is there anything else you find interesting about this report? Right, so is there anything else you?

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

find interesting about this report. So we also did a lot of research in terms of how ghosting looks in a work environment and in interviewing actually as well. And once again surprisingly, at least from my opinion we found that one in six have ghosted their employers or potential employers even in the interview process, and that's one of those things I would assume, that being a professional and giving off that sense of professionalism would kind of take precedence of. Hey, I know this is kind of a matching with one another. This doesn't really feel like a good fit for me. I don't know how you guys are feeling. I want to kind of cut off the interview process here, but for some people they just find it's easier to just say nothing at all and not respond anymore.

Gretta :

Yeah, I think that's a cop out.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

I agree.

Gretta :

Yeah, but it's. It's unfortunate that this is happening right and left. I can't even and I definitely have some episodes that are dedicated to professional ghosting, ghosting in the workplace, that kind of thing.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

And apparently, once again from research, one in four have ghosted from their actual workplace at one point in time in their lives. And once again, I think professionalism and not burning bridges is such a core value. If you don't find that the place that you're working is where you want to work, communicate that, and I understand that not every business treats you as a person and sometimes it's just not the right place for you. But being able to just say here's my notice or this is the reason I can't continue to working here, shouldn't be as much of a struggle as it seems to be. And one in four is quite a large number, in my opinion.

Gretta :

It's a lot. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Listen, if there's anyone who knows just how painful it is to be ghosted, it's me. I've been through the ringer with all things ghosting and I used to hold the belief that time itself would heal all my wounds. But, as it turns out, time itself didn't magically improve my state of mind. I had to do deep inner work to feel better after being ghosted, and I did it in therapy. And that's why I'm excited to tell you about today's sponsor, betterhelp.

Gretta :

Betterhelp connects you with a licensed therapist who is trained to listen and give you helpful, unbiased advice. First you go to their site. You can use my link betterhelp dot com slash coping with ghosting. You answer a few questions and BetterHelp will match you to a professional who has years of experience helping people with issues just like yours. You can do it all from your phone or computer phone call, video chat or messaging however you feel most comfortable. It's the easiest way possible to start talking to a therapist. Let BetterHelp connect you to a therapist who can support you all from the comfort of your own home. Visit betterhelp dot com slash coping with ghosting, or choose coping with ghosting during signup and enjoy a special discount on your first month. What are some of the themes that emerged from the report? What?

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

are some of the themes that emerged from the report. So, for one, the frequency of ghosting seems to happen more in larger cities. I think we actually live in those cities already. So New York City, unfortunately, is number one, and LA being number two, as we could all assume, they'd probably be up there.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

Chicago, midwest you're not too far off, so you're three and we're seeing it happen more in those types of major cities, while the ones that are least likely to find people being ghosted Minneapolis and, surprisingly, miami I thought that would happen a little bit more there, but still pretty great and Tampa, florida. So it seems like Florida maybe overall has a little bit better chance of minimizing your ghosting experience. Also, the high percentage of people that are being ghosted, that are ghosting, that have been ghosted in their past, whether it's romantic or friendship or acquaintances, they're all high and people are doing it via messaging. They're doing it in person and people are doing it via messaging. They're doing it in person and one of the largest reasons for doing it is just not being interested in continuing the relationship, whether it be friendship or romantic, and it just it saddens me that that's kind of the theme is, if you're not interested, you can't communicate that, but you would hopefully be communicating when you do want to continue it, and that seems to not be a thing either.

Gretta :

Mm. Hmm, hopefully be communicating when you do want to continue it, and that seems to not be a thing either.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

I read something recently that said ghosting is the digital consequence of if you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all. I think that resonates with what we were seeing as well, and I also think people tend to over categorize what's considered to be not nice, so it's more of a black and white thinking If it's not nice, it's bad, and when there's usually a lot of gray area in there. So sometimes it's neutral, sometimes we're not a good fit, or your humor doesn't match my humor, or your family values don't match my family values, or whatever the case may be, and that's okay. It's not negative, it's just a statement of fact. But people take anything that's not positive as being negative, and that leads to this idea of well, let me not say anything because I don't want to hurt their feelings. I'm very much of the person belief that it's okay to tell people what didn't work for you and, if anything, it allows them to have an opportunity to grow if that's something that they wouldn't have grown from otherwise.

Gretta :

Oh yeah, I think that's really helpful. I remember one time I was on an online date and I think this was in the pandemic and we were just on like a bumble chat and this guy said so it was before. Obviously we haven't met in person. Like I think we were still in quarantines and we were just doing video chats. And I was talking to him and he's like you're not the right fit for me because you're too animated, and I was like well, thank you for sharing that. I hope you go find someone who has no animation whatsoever and I'm going to continue to be animated. But it's very helpful that you told me that, because now I know what you're thinking and what your needs are and why it didn't work and I'm not left in the dark.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

Well, that's a very unique experience and I'm also just. One of my first thoughts is I'm glad that you didn't end up with that person. Then you can't be yourself, and that's something that is really important. If it's something that's a really core part of who you are and how you present. You should want someone that not only tolerates that because I think that's kind of the bare minimum but someone who appreciates that and engages in that and says oh my God, she's so animated, Like I get to be myself, I don't have to worry about how I'm being perceived, because she's just like me. I think that's the feeling that you really want to have in those connections.

Gretta :

Right, I agree. What other themes emerged from this report?

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

As you've already indicated, it's seen by two and three that ghosting is a byproduct of the online dating scene and that boom has really led to more people reacting in that way. In particular, gen z and millennial participants in the survey have relatively high percentages of being fed up with dating, feeling like they need to go themselves. So I believe it was like 35% of Gen Z, then roughly 25, 27% of millennials kind of feel that way and that kind of speaks to the benefits of having online dating, because you have access to people that maybe you wouldn't have met otherwise, but then you also have this notion of options where that doesn't necessarily exist otherwise. So you're kind of forcing yourself to be in an environment where you're just swiping and seeing people as just pictures instead of actual people with feelings and understanding that these conversations are actual forms of connection.

Gretta :

Right. I think it's really easy to dehumanize people because you just you can't see them in the flesh, they're just images. So you just kind of swipe, swipe, swipe, throw them away. It doesn't really matter, we can easily discard them here and then, well, they're not real. Maybe they're NPCs or something non-plant characters, and then we could just ghost them. It doesn't matter. I assume that's what some people may be thinking.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

And for a lot of people that's exactly how it feels and there's no really negative consequence in their minds. So if you don't match with someone, the idea is, maybe they didn't even see my profile yet. You don't ever get like confirmation that you've been rejected. Here and there you do see when there's a match. So that's only the positive component, which is to kind of keep you in there, and when there's a sense of, okay, well, there's other people that are liking me, so I don't need to continue this conversation, I don't need to show respect to this person, and so you know this NPC, as you put it, then that's just how people react to it and it, like you said, it dehumanizes the person on the other end of that chat, and it's unfortunate because people all want to be treated like people, but then they're not also treating others in that way, and I also see that happening with close friendships, and we've noticed that in the survey as well.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

So despite the fact that you might consider someone to be a close friend, you may end up ghosting them, and I think I'm probably going to be a broken record at this point, and that also surprised me to see that. And when I look at the people that I've worked with for my day-to-day clientele. It makes sense when you really get into the weeds of that and we can definitely discuss that, but at least for the purposes of discussing the research, one and two have been ghosted by a close friend and that I think in and of itself is kind of one of the highest statistics that we're noticing. And to consider someone really close to you, chosen friend, to ghost you. It's very hurtful and I kind of want to bring up a quote that's often misquoted in a situation like this. Have you ever heard of the quote? Um, blood is thicker than water yes so some research behind that is.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

That's the incomplete quote and it actually is the exact opposite of what you think it is.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

So the idea of blood is thicker than water is that you're supposed to choose family over friends.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

The full quote is the blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the room, which is essentially to say, the people that you choose to surround yourself with is stronger than people that you were kind of born into just being around with, is stronger than people that you were kind of born into just being around.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

So to choose to be around people, to have that level of connection with people where you're sharing intimate moments and being vulnerable, and then to have that person or people just leave you without any confirmation, any reasoning, any justification, and that can be especially hurtful because it feels like you've made the wrong choice at some point, or sometimes you don't even know what choice was made or what was said that led to that. So that's something that's been particularly hurtful to hear and to know, and for people that I've worked with that have experienced that it's often some misunderstanding that was never clarified, some level of resentment or jealousy or aggression that was never really spoken about. It's often just things that were not communicated, that could have easily been overcome had they been spoken about in the moment and yet just never found the light of day.

Gretta :

It's happened to me in a very traumatic way and it still hurts. It still hurts even though it's been years, because my friend was my friend for gosh, I think 15 years before she stopped talking to me, and I have grown around my grief. But I also hold a special place in my heart for her now because I've worked on healing and so I do wish the best for her. But it is sad.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

And I can say from my own and I've also experienced that with very close friends, even people that I imagine at some point would kind of be there for the rest of my life and for that to happen. It's never not hurtful, and grief is one of those things that never gets easier. You just get better at carrying it, in my opinion. So knowing that I'm better at carrying that helps me to move forward. But you still every I'll speak for myself I still wonder every once in a while what if I could undo whatever miscommunication occurred? What if I could go back and change things? What that would look like? But I also know that's not realistic and therefore I try not to hold on to that thought for too long.

Gretta :

Yeah, I think that's healthy. I'd love to hear your thoughts on how the loneliness epidemic has contributed to ghosting.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

Absolutely. So what? My thoughts are? That people don't want to feel lonely. Now, that's not the same thing as being alone. Some people are very comfortable doing things alone, whether it's travel, cooking, living alone, whatever the case may be, and that's fine. But lonely is not a choice.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

Lonely is a state of being, an emotion that comes from feeling like you're not in control of when you're alone and when you aren't, and that can be really difficult for people, and it's very hard to find yourself in that position. So oftentimes you seek out others, and sometimes it's an active effort. Sometimes it's got more passive in nature, but that leads to this fear of ending up feeling lonely even when you're with someone. So maybe you let go of some red flags that you shouldn't have let go of until it's too late. Maybe it's putting yourself in a position where you're reaching out to everyone and anyone, even though you don't necessarily have the time to do that, and that also leads to behaviors that are not conducive to making and maintaining those connections. So you'll often find yourself overcommitting and then having to cut off connections out of nowhere, or being very flaky and canceling on people.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

And, more specifically to the topic of this conversation, that also leads to people ghosting because they just don't know how to say actually don't have a connection with you. I'm just actively looking for people that don't make how to say actually don't have a connection with you. I'm just actively looking for people that don't make me feel lonely and though I don't have connection with you, you're responsive, but not in a way that I connect with and not being able to have that reflection piece and not be able to communicate that reflection, that leads to people just saying I don't know, I just I didn't feel it, so I'm not going to talk to that person. I don't know, I just I didn't feel it, so I'm not going to talk to that person. And then we have another connection that just gets kind of wasted or never fully communicated because of that, that loneliness really taking over and that fear of that loneliness leading to people just behaving in ways that they wouldn't behave in a healthier environment a healthier environment.

Gretta :

Those are great points, yeah, and I know that a lot of people go online to find new friends to date because sometimes they're stuck at home, sometimes they literally physically cannot leave their house due to health conditions. Sometimes they are, you know, making friends with people online, dating people online who are in different countries, who are across oceans and they can't meet up For whatever reason. They just can't meet up with these people that they've cultivated these relationships with online, and so these relationships can go on for months or even years. And a lot of the people that I've coached have come to me and said I was ghosted by somebody in a different country, in a different state. I was friends with them for like three years, or I had an online romance with them for a year and a half. So I wonder what soothing words you would have for somebody who has been ghosted by somebody that they met online.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

Well, the level of soothing may be different, so I'll try my best, but I think the first thing I can say is the fact that you had those feelings for that person and with that person don't go away.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

And that feeling that comes from that sense of being ghosted is essentially a grieving process, and I know we tend to think of grief typically in the idea of death, but grieving is much more complex than that.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

The idea of loss is where grief comes in, and something that makes it, in my opinion, very beautiful is the idea that you got to experience that. And it may not be something that everyone understands, it may not be something that everyone accepts, but the fact that you had one year, two years, three years, and you felt like you were actually in love with this person, you were connected to someone, someone was there for you. It may not be in the way that everyone thinks the, the way that relationships should develop, happen, but you still had that. And some of the best things are things that we can fully explain and there's nothing wrong with experiencing that. It doesn't necessarily take away the pain. But you can also realize that the best relationships are not just defined by the ending. It's defined by how they developed, and it's okay to feel sad, but it's also okay to understand that you had a really great time up until that point.

Gretta :

Yeah, that's really nice. I love that you said that. Thank you. Do you have any suggestions for someone who's currently in an online relationship and concerned that they may be ghosted?

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

I think we always run the risk of being ghosted just with any connection. But the concern for the individual should be what am I doing, what am I putting out there to show that this is my standard of communication? Am I talking about the things that bother me in a healthy way, Not just saying you need to change this? But hey, this is something I've noticed that I really think we should work on together or I would like to see this in my relationships to feel like this is something that you're able to provide. When you bring in a higher level of communication, it entices the other person or people to bring in a higher level of communication as well. But if you're being withholding and you're withdrawn, you're also kind of enticing the other person to be that way. So be the person that you want to be with, and I think that's going to help minimize that percentage that shows up in terms of the people that are ghosting.

Gretta :

I hear you on that. I think it's best to meet people in real life, but I also know that there are so many people who just cannot get outside for whatever reason. Just that's not available to them at this time, and they're lonely. And do you have any suggestions for people who are, you know, struggling to make friends or find love because they can't actually go anywhere? Like, what would you recommend for these people go?

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

anywhere Like what would you recommend for these people?

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

My genuine recommendation is to find something that actually has a community tie into it, so there's a higher possibility of that relationship transitioning into something where you can meet in person, even if it's not necessarily you leaving your home, but maybe, if you're close enough, maybe they can come and see you.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

Or, if you have a limited mobility and you can only go so far, you can go somewhere in your neighborhood that is within that range and they can meet you there. Try to do something that doesn't make it an inconvenience, such as traveling across the country to see someone, but if they are in your neighborhood, there are plenty of organizations, there are plenty of meetups, there are plenty of websites that offer lonely people an opportunity to not be lonely, and by finding things that encourage the ability to push past those boundaries and by you putting yourself in a position to, of course, be healthy and safe, but also get yourself into an environment where other people can be, you're improving your chances of having the positive emotions, the positive neurochemicals, the things that help to promote growth and healing and that may be restorative for you on another level as well.

Gretta :

Yeah. Yeah, I agree, and if you are somebody who is struggling with a specific condition, there are often support groups based around those issues. For example, my friend was a person living with fibromyalgia and I and she was able to find a support group that was really helpful for that.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

And that's a great example of the point I was trying to make earlier is that there are people who also go through the same concerns, same struggles, same life challenges that you're going through, but it also feels like you're the only person experiencing it, even though you know that not to be true. So by being able to put yourself in an environment where you can see and speak to and hear the voices of other people going through it, it helps to demystify this idea that it's just me.

Gretta :

Yeah, you provide therapy services in New York City and I'd love for you to pull back the curtain and share any stories that are relative to our conversation, if there's any, I mean, you can make up the names. Obviously, we want to protect the privacy of your clientele, but I'm just wondering, like what you've heard, what people said about being ghosted or ghosting.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

So the benefit of working at my job, where I get to meet a very, very clientele, is that I kind of get every perspective of ghosting and just to kind of give the audience a little bit more insight into how I do my therapeutic sessions. Personally, I'm a little bit more direct than therapists tend to be, and the clients that I work with tend to appreciate that a little bit more rec than therapists tend to be, and the clients that I work with tend to appreciate that a little bit more. So to that end, I'm able to challenge my clients immediately when they say I'm just not going to talk to this person anymore. I think it's really important to understand that some clients, such as the specific male client I'm thinking of he has these people that he's trying to go on dates with and he has this idea of what his perfect match would be, but it's often comparing to this unrealistic standard that was set by an ex who they just never really figured things out. So everyone unbeknownst to them is being compared to this standard that they really don't have any reason to meet. They need to be themselves and yet because they don't meet the standard that he's setting and not really acknowledging, he feels like it's not worth his time. Therefore, he leaves it. Not being able to one acknowledge the reason that you're having so much difficulty finding these people that are going to magically become your ex is one thing, but then treating them as if they're not still people that you're trying to make a connection with is also a problem. So ultimately, that leads to this idea of gaining insight into your actions and behaviors and decision making and then learning what the appropriate steps are after that. You can't necessarily force someone to like something that they don't like or to react in a different way, but you can always encourage them to be more human, because when they are on the other end of that, it's very reactive.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

And that's something I see in a lot of clients is this idea that when people ghost me, it's hurtful. Why would they do that? It doesn't make sense. It's hurtful. Why would they do that? It doesn't make sense. I don't know what they're thinking when they do these things, and yet, inevitably throughout the cycle, they get to a point where they want to do the same and you have to remind them. No, it's hurtful. People won't know what you're thinking. You don't want to perpetuate that cycle. So being able to avoid the hypocrisy of it and then put a better version of that person out. There is something that you get to benefit from being in my position.

Gretta :

That's important work. Thank you for it.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

Absolutely.

Gretta :

Is there anything else you'd like to share with listeners about the study, about the report, about being ghosted, ghosting about the report about being ghosted, ghosting, I think.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

A final thought I have about the report and the study as a whole is that every percentage we looked at whether it be being at work and ghosting, being in the interview process and ghosting being in relationships, acquaintanceships, romantic relationships, relationships the amount of people that have experienced it is high and perpetuating that is also high, which gives the sense that people react to how they're feeling and not what they're thinking.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

The emotion behind being hurt is often going to overtake the logic of when I'm hurt. I should say or do this thing I would highly recommend for anyone in the position where they're going to ghost or really considering engaging in ghosting behavior to think about what it is like to be on the other side and develop that level of empathy and say no matter how awkward this is, no matter how unwilling I am to do this, I think it's important to treat other people like people, because I want to be treated like a person when I'm on the other end of that. I think that mentality, if everyone applies it, it's going to severely reduce the amount of bad acting we have and ghosting wouldn't be a thing anymore if everyone thought that way.

Gretta :

And I couldn't agree with you more how can listeners connect with you?

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

well, they're welcome to come to the website thriving center of psych psychcom, and we have litany of great therapists there, and I'm happy to meet with anyone as long as I'm available, and I'm also on Instagram, but you'll have to find me there.

Gretta :

Okay, got it, and I just want to say thank you so much for coming on the show today and for sharing all of these great insights with our listeners, and also thank, thank you to the thriving center of psychology. But yes, thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Tirrell DeGannes:

Thank you for having me. It was such a pleasure.

Gretta :

And listeners. Please follow at coping with ghosting on social media. You can join my free and private Facebook support group. I also offer private ghost coaching sessions. You can find more about that on copingwithghostingcom. And remember, when you're ghosted you have more time to connect with yourself and people who have ghosts to meet.