Coping With Ghosting

Will They Ghost Me? How to Spot the Signs in Dating with Kelsey Wonderlin, Licensed Therapist & Dating Coach

• Gretta Perlmutter, MA, Certified Post Betrayal Transformation® Coach • Season 1 • Episode 91

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Want to stop ghosting before it happens? While you can never entirely prevent ghosting, there are signs it may occur in the future. Join host Gretta and licensed therapist & dating coach Kelsey Wonderlin as they share practical tools for spotting emotional availability in dating.

Discover how to:

  • Use questions to screen for emotional maturity
  • Pace dates to slow attachment
  • Date with confidence
  • Spot vulnerability versus polished talk

Whether you're single and dating or already in a relationship, this conversation provides ways to protect your energy and prioritize partners who show up. 

Connect With Gretta

❤️‍🩹Free & Private Facebook Support Group | Instagram | YouTube | copingwithghosting.com

Host Gretta Perlmutter, MA, a Certified Post Betrayal Transformation® Coach, delivers evidence-based strategies for turning personal betrayal into a powerful catalyst for growth and healing.

Connect with Kelsey Wonderlin, Licensed Therapist and Dating Coach

💕Kelsey's Website |  Instagram 

Kelsey has dedicated her career to helping women use evidence-based psychology principles to attract emotionally available men, fast. Her proprietary methods have been featured in The New York Times, TIME Magazine, NBC, and more. If you're a single woman and want to find true love, check out her courses!💕

Music: "Ghosted" by Gustavo Zaiah

Disclaimer: This information is designed to mentor and guide you to cope with Ghosting by cultivating a positive mindset and implementing self-care practices. It is for educational purposes only; it solely provides self-help tools. Coping With Ghosting does not provide health care or psychological therapy services and does not diagnose or treat any physical or mental ailment of the mind or body. The content is not a substitute for therapy or any advice given by a licensed psychologist or other licensed or registered professionals.

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Note to All Listeners: Ghosting is defined as: The practice of ending a personal relationship with someone by suddenly and without explanation withdrawing from all communication (Oxford Languages). When you leave an abusive situation without saying "goodbye," it's not ghosting, it's "self-protection." When you quietly exit a relationship after a boundary has been violated, it's not ghosting, it's "self-respect."

Gretta:

Welcome to Coping with Ghosting, the podcast that provides hope, healing, and understanding for anyone who's been ghosted or betrayed. I'm your host, Gretta, and today's episode is all about ghost hunting and ghost busting in dating. We'll talk about how to spot signs that someone you're seeing might vanish and what you can do about it. Whether you're single or ready to start dating, or if you're already in a relationship and wanting to better understand your partner, this episode is for you. Joining me today is Kelsey Wonderlin, licensed therapist and dating coach. Kelsey has dedicated her career to helping women use evidence-based psychology principles to attract emotionally available men fast. Her proprietary methods have been featured in the New York Times, Time Magazine, NBC, and more. And Kelsey, I'm so glad you're here. Me too. I'm so excited.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Thanks for having me.

Gretta:

Yes, and somebody I know bought your magnetic dating lab, and she absolutely loves it.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Yes, I love that so much. That is definitely my favorite course, and I would say it's my client's favorite course as well. Definitely has the most five-star reviews. So I'm so glad that she loved it.

Gretta:

Me too. It's really, really helped her. So good. One thing I appreciate about your work are the very thoughtful weed out questions that you provide to your clients. Can you share how asking the right questions can guide someone toward finding meaningful, lasting love?

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Yeah. So I think one of the biggest mistakes that people make on dating apps is, aside from their profile, when they get a match, what they message is often just like, hey, how are you? Or how was your weekend? Or, you know, things like that. And that makes total sense because that's how we're socialized to connect in person. But on dating apps, it can work a little bit differently. And people are really inundated with hearing, hey, how are you? How was your weekend? Because you don't know this person, it's really hard to connect with that question. And so I find that it's much more effective to actually go with kind of like a more bold or just deep question to start. So one example could be what's something you learned in recent years that's really important to you now in relationships. And the weeding out comes in their answer. So it's going to do two things for you actually. It's going to start more of that interesting conversation. So you're not just doing the hey, how are you? and your messages are like everybody else, and it's boring to you too. But you're also going to weed out, right? So the weeding out happens in the other person's answer. So some people will say, like, I work primarily with women, I do work with men too. But one of my clients asked this question and a guy answered like something like, I learned that women can find out anything about you if they want, or something like that. Like it was a really sketchy answer. And that was that was all there was to it. So I was like, oh, thank you next, right? That is not my dream partner. Some guys, though, answered like a really great solid few sentences or paragraph about, like, yeah, you know, I learned the importance of communication or I learned the importance of boundaries or something that really shows that they self-reflect and that they understand that level of emotional maturity. So it's really useful for quickly discerning is this person someone I want to continue talking to? I love it.

Gretta:

So smart. What are your top weed out questions to determine if someone is a potential ghost? And how can someone tell if these answers are concerning or reassuring? That's a good question.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

So, I mean, I think that to preface it, it's there's so much more I could say about this, but you can't necessarily know 100% all the time, every single time, by asking one question if someone's gonna ghost, right? There's a lot of times where people give the indication that they're very interested and then they ghost later. There's a lot that is behind that, in my opinion, as well, as in the kind of guys who come on or women who come on really strong, they tend to be the ones who pull away and ghost later. So that's like its own other thing. But in general, I would say there's a few questions you can kind of ask. Again, what you're looking for and what you're really trying to get at is more of is this person emotionally in tune with themselves? Do they seem to have a grasp on direct communication, emotional maturity concepts like that? So I have a few questions for you. Um, you could ask something like, what's something that has challenged you in past relationships? Who in your life do you have the deepest relationship with? Like, do they have anyone that they have a deep relationship with? What would make you not move forward with someone you're dating? That opens the conversation to what are some things that don't work for you? And then you could even talk about how do you handle it when you realize that you don't want to move forward with someone. Um you can say even when you're starting to get to know someone, you can say something like, Hey, let's just agree that open communication is welcome here. And if either of our feelings change, that's totally okay. That's the whole point of dating. And we'll just agree that we'll let each other know directly.

Gretta:

That's smart. I've heard people say, let's be open in terms of communication. Unfortunately, people say, Oh, I'll never ghost you, I would never ghost you, and then they still ghost. So what you said before, it's it's sometimes it's just really impossible to predict, and you can't control the other person, and it just unfortunately it just happens.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Yeah. What I found too is this is really confusing for folks, but I have found that a lot of times the people who seem and really say that they are direct communicators, they're actually not. And I know that that is like maybe unhelpful um advice without going a little bit deeper, but essentially I even notice in in my work, sometimes people who say, like, I'm a straight shooter, you can give it to me straight, et cetera, they're they're actually quite sensitive. And that is like a defense for that. So I can understand why it's super confusing sometimes that my clients will say, Hey, this guy said he values direct communication, he's an open communicator, but then things fell off. And instead of just saying something, he acted really weird and he was like slow fading and that kind of thing. And she had to call it out, right? So I would look more at the actions than just the self-proclaiming of what somebody says that they can do. And you can really look for smaller ways that they communicate about themselves. Like, are they sharing anything vulnerable? Have they talked about anything that isn't super impressive or positive? Because that indicates that somebody's more comfortable communicating and sharing things that aren't just great.

Gretta:

Right. Another question to ask would be have you ever ghosted anyone before? Or have you ever been ghosted? And what did that feel like? And what what do you think about ghosting? I love that.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

I love that question. Yeah. And I will say that um, you know, I think many people have ghosted people on dating apps, but that's totally different than we've met in real life, and then you ghosted. That's not okay.

Gretta:

I hear you. I think it's important to get off of the dating app chat as quickly as possible and move the relationship into real life because the endless chat isn't it's not a real relationship.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Yeah, it's not, and also that's again where people fall off because you haven't met yet. So you don't have this connection. It's there's nothing really pulling you to keep responding after like one or two weeks, and people often just fall off and forget about it and go, oh, I don't know about that person. And then they go swipe and find someone new. Yeah.

Gretta:

Yeah. And that can be hurtful, especially if you maybe if you thought that there was a potential that you could meet them, but still. What do you tell clients? Like how much chatting do you need to do before meeting in real life?

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Yeah, that's a great question. I always say once you've gotten the answer that you kind of were looking for in regards to your weed out question, then it's time to meet. And maybe not, I wouldn't even say like the answer you're looking for, but an answer that you like, right? There's not like a right answer. There's a lot of different ways somebody could answer a lot of these questions. But if you like the answers to the weed out questions and you've gotten a sense that, hey, this person aligns with my values or seems to be introspective or things like that that I'm looking for, it's time to go ahead and schedule a date and then just say something like, awesome, I'm excited, looking forward to it. You know, I prefer to build connection in person and use texting to plan dates. So let's check in a day or two before. See you then, right? So that way we're not, again, entering that like pen pal phase where we can build false intimacy, rush our attachment. And then it gets even maybe a little awkward when you meet in person.

Gretta:

Yes, I agree completely. Yeah. It's common to hold on to the hopes that the person we're dating or even talking to, maybe somebody answered a weed out question, probably like in a little bit of a weird way, but you're just like, oh, but they're so cute, you know? And maybe you're just hoping they'll change, or maybe they'll be different in real life. And it's often tempting to just overlook these warning signs. So I'd love to hear your take on dating for potential.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Yeah, that's that's a big one. So I understand, like you said, where that comes from. And I think we have to get really honest with ourselves about what is it that we're seeing right here, right now? Who is this person showing us that they are right now? And that can be hard to tell on a dating app when you like ask them one question, right? If they give you kind of a a bit of an off answer, but there's maybe some substance there, ask another question, you know, like see it through in that way. But as soon as it becomes clear that someone doesn't align with your values, isn't able to meet your needs, or isn't healthy for you, then it's time to cut it off no matter how much chemistry you have, no matter how excited you were about them, no matter how attractive you think they are.

Gretta:

What are the best ways to end it? Like if you're on a chat or even if you've been on a few dates, what is a polite way to end this relationship?

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Yeah, I like to have people just say something like, Hey, it was really great getting to know you, but I don't think we're a match. I wish you the best. Something like that. Unfortunately, sometimes you'll get like a somebody who wants feedback on the other end of that. They'll like ask you, you know, well, can you tell me why? I just generally don't think that's very helpful at that stage of dating if you barely know each other, because it's likely just that you're not a fit and the other person doesn't need to change anything. And same thing goes if you hear this from someone else, right? You don't need to spiral into like, oh, what did I do and what can I do differently? If you have a pattern in dating where you can't get past the first date, yes, maybe we need to reflect on what's happening for you on those dates. But in general, it's just that it's not a fit. It doesn't mean anything about you, it doesn't mean you need to do anything differently, and nobody needs to share feedback on either side.

Gretta:

I agree. I don't think you owe anybody an explanation, especially so early in the dating. 100%. What other tips do you have for eliminating potential ghosts in love and romance?

Kelsey Wonderlin:

I think again, what it really comes down to for me is being able to pick out signs of true emotional availability and maturity versus someone who knows the right things to say, but isn't really living that out. And so what I mean by that is, you know, again, people who are truly emotionally available and mature and are not likely to ghost you, they're more vulnerable communicators. If you look very closely, you could spend time with somebody who you can have deep talks about the universe or spirituality, and you feel like you're connecting so much, you stayed up all night talking, you didn't even do anything physically. I hear this all the time. And then they decided that they're not ready or they ghosted or what have you. That kind of connection is great, but when you look very closely, was that person really sharing anything much about themselves? Or were they just kind of talking about life and their work and all these kinds of other topics without that depth to it? And those topics feel like depth and they are in their own way, but they're not emotionally vulnerable in the way of, yeah, this is something that like I'm not super proud of in my life, or this is something that I have some regret or some shame around, or this is something I'm working on in myself that like I know I need to work on and I'm not, you know, not proud of it right now, or it's not where I want it to be. That's more vulnerable communication. And it's not to say that someone who says those things to you isn't gonna ghost you, but I think they're less likely to because they're demonstrating a skill set that is aligned with somebody who would just directly communicate.

Gretta:

They're sharing from their heart.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Yeah. And people who ghost often don't know what to say. They don't know how to just that's a little bit too vulnerable for them, I think a lot of the time. They're not the kind of people who are sharing necessarily in that way.

Gretta:

If they're slow to communicate, like for example, if you text them and then they wait like four or five days to text you back, I think that's another sign that they might ghost or at least become a breadcrumber.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Yeah, totally. And again, it's you know, I think what I focus on a bit more too is regardless of whether he will ghost or not, is this level of communication working for you? That's the question you want to come back to, right? Sitting in your secure self and asking yourself, okay, regardless of where this might go right here, right now, is that working for me to hear from this person every four to five days? If we're, let's say, four dates in and we're at the point where we can start texting more often, right? Um, if you're in the early stages where somebody plans a date with you and then you don't hear from them until the date, that's totally fine. That's different.

Gretta:

One of my best friends got married to her husband, but when they first started dating for months, he would just text her once a week. She was totally cool with that. So it's just different for everybody.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

It is. And I think it's it depends on the other areas of the relationship and how that person's showing up. So if somebody's texting you once a week, but then they're really great in person, or they call you on the phone, or you know, they plan the dates enough in advance where you know that something else is coming, that can feel okay. Versus you have a date, you don't know if they want to see you again, and you don't hear from them for a week. That can be hard.

Gretta:

I've been through that. That's really hard. Yeah, totally. Is there anything else you'd like to share with the listeners about ghosting or being ghosted in general?

Kelsey Wonderlin:

I would say try not to take it personally. There's a million and one reasons why someone who initially expressed interest in you then doesn't respond. And I think one of the best things you can do in dating is to start seeing everything that the other person does in the early stages as information for you about whether they're a good fit for you, not information about you and whether you're good enough for them, right? So again, does this person share my values, show that they might be able to meet my needs, right? Do they seem healthy? Do I see green flags here of emotional availability and maturity? Seeing it that way helps you stay more confident because I know when you get ghosted, it can feel like a hit to the ego for sure, or really shake your self-worth. So when you date in this way, I find that you can hold on to that confidence and self-worth more easily. And if it doesn't work out, then you let it go a little easier too.

Gretta:

That's such an empowered stance. And I hope listeners begin to do that because mindset is everything.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Totally. Yeah, and like take this person off the pedestal. Again, no matter how amazing they were, no matter how great the time you spent was, or how much chemistry you had, at the end of the day, if someone can't communicate with you, that's a non-starter. Like, you know, the way that somebody behaves with you should change how you feel about them. And too often I think we still have somebody who ghosts up on the pedestal as this person who the one that got away or the one that we couldn't have. And what's true if we really look at it without rose-colored glasses is like this person just became a non-starter, as in they don't even meet your bare minimum standards. Right. And that is part of why, too, one thing I talk about a lot in in that program that your friend took as well is the importance of going slow, because you will see behavior over time. And when you go slower, it really helps you to not get so attached that you're putting this person up on the pedestal before you really even know them.

Gretta:

What's a good timeline? How slow should somebody go? Yeah.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

I usually say after four to six dates or four to six weeks, depending on the pacing of the dates, but ideally dates are one a week, maybe two. Then you can be exclusive after that point. Four to six dates. Sometimes it's a little faster, sometimes it's a little longer. And then after that, usually it's about one to two months before people decide, hey, we've given this enough time focusing on our connection exclusively to feel like we're a good fit to be in a relationship. And then you might, you know, parade around boyfriend and girlfriend and that kind of thing.

Gretta:

That sounds like a smart way to do it.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Yeah. Well, and everything that I teach and talk about, I was once struggling with too. So I know how hard it is to do that, and I know how hard it is to be ghosted and all of that. So I really do, I really do get it. And I came up with these strategies because I honestly needed them at the time, and I didn't find anywhere that I could go to find them. So that's what I do now.

Gretta:

I love it. I feel the same way about what I'm doing too. Like it's so important. I've been ghosted so many times. It's like this haunted merry-go-round, and it's so frustrating. And I just was like, okay, I can't. I need to help people with this. I love it.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

I love the work that you're doing so much. It's so important. Thank you.

Gretta:

Well, how can listeners connect with you? Learn more about your work, get some of your courses.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Yeah. I'm on Instagram primarily at Kelsey Wonderland. And I'm also on YouTube and TikTok, same handle there as well.

Gretta:

Could you share a little bit about the courses you offer?

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Yeah. So I have several different courses, but I think the ones that would be most pertinent here are Magnetic Dating Lab, which you mentioned that your friend took. That's my, honestly, that's my biggest course. It's my the one with the most five-star reviews. And that's where I help people with all of the stuff that we talked about today of kind of dating from that secure, empowered stance in order to attract the same kind of partner, right? So that includes becoming emotionally available yourself, dating from a secure place, and trying to reduce or eliminate dating anxiety. Then we also cover dating strategies. So those weed out questions, what you should have in your profile, because that even precedes your weed out question. You should have criteria and things in your profile that really help other people get a good sense of you so that they can weed themselves in or out before you even have to message them. Then we also talk about that piece of slowing your attachment so that you can identify red and green flags before you get attached. And then finally, I set you guys up as well with some tips and strategies for healthy conflict resolution and communication, because the last thing that I want to see is people to go through this process, find their person, and then the relationship crumbled just because nobody ever taught them those skills. So that's magnetic dating lab. It also comes with my text and communication cure course, which goes even more into ghosting, how to prevent that, the different types of texters, how to ask for more communication or less if somebody's like texting you too much or not enough. It includes my master your attachment style program as well to become securely attached. And then it also includes my self-love lab course, which is exactly what it sounds like, but going more into that empowered self piece so that you can date from a place of, hey, this is information for me, not about me. I decide how I feel about myself. And I don't let that be dependent on whether I get a text back or if this person likes me or not.

Gretta:

I'm so glad you joined me today. Everything you said was just so helpful. I know you're going to be really helping a lot of listeners. So this has been great.

Kelsey Wonderlin:

Thank you so much for having me. This was awesome.

Gretta:

My pleasure. And listeners, did you know that you could watch the video episode of this podcast on YouTube? Please subscribe to Coping with Ghosting on YouTube if you haven't already. You can also follow me at Coping with Ghosting on social media and join my free and private Coping with Ghosting Facebook support group. And please leave a rating for this show so other people can find it. And finally remember that when you're ghosted, you have more time to connect with yourself and people who have stellar communication skills. You deserve the best.